I do not know anything about them. Can someone fill me in on construction, and advantages?
Carbon Fiber Rifle Barrels
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.38SuperMan
Well-known member
I have two rifles and one pistol with a CF barrel. Basically it’s a light weight metal barrel with a carbon fiber sleeve around it. The sieve is basically woven carbon. My understanding, and I might be wrong, is it helps didipatr heat. There may be some advantage to allowing the barrel to oscillate at its natural harmonic frequency more easily but that’s just my speculation. The weight out front is substantially less as well and accuracy on all three is excellent. All three of my guns are substantially lighter than ones with full steel barrels.
I’ll try to remember to snap a quick photo and post it later.
I’ll try to remember to snap a quick photo and post it later.
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Please define excellent accuracy with numbers,
grouping, distance and how the firearm was held.
ie: one ragged hole, 100 yards, prone off elbows, 5.56,
70gr bullet, POI same as POA, three shots fired and
sights used.
Thanks.
grouping, distance and how the firearm was held.
ie: one ragged hole, 100 yards, prone off elbows, 5.56,
70gr bullet, POI same as POA, three shots fired and
sights used.
Thanks.
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At my age lighter is better.
This would be a fun AR-15 to shoot and own.
The Elite (AR- 15) | Crown Precision Arms
It would melt one of my credit cards!
This would be a fun AR-15 to shoot and own.
The Elite (AR- 15) | Crown Precision Arms
It would melt one of my credit cards!
Carbon fiber has a much higher tensile strength than steel and probably also serves to stiffen the barrel.
The problem with carbon is that unlike steel it does not have a plastic break. Steel deforms before breaking (like when a barrel swells but does not break) carbon instead breaks without warning. When it exceeds its limit it falls to pieces.
For the same thickness a carbon barrel resists much more than a steel one. The problem is that carbon fiber is held together by epoxy resin that keeps the fibers directed in the right direction. Epoxy resin does not resist heat and melts at a temperature 14 times lower than steel so if the barrel gets too hot the external coating melts and only the carbon fiber remains which without resin frays immediately.
Pros: a resistant carbon barrel. pressures much higher than a steel one
Cons: if you shoot until the barrel becomes red hot you throw everything away. In fact there are no machine guns with a carbon barrel
The problem with carbon is that unlike steel it does not have a plastic break. Steel deforms before breaking (like when a barrel swells but does not break) carbon instead breaks without warning. When it exceeds its limit it falls to pieces.
For the same thickness a carbon barrel resists much more than a steel one. The problem is that carbon fiber is held together by epoxy resin that keeps the fibers directed in the right direction. Epoxy resin does not resist heat and melts at a temperature 14 times lower than steel so if the barrel gets too hot the external coating melts and only the carbon fiber remains which without resin frays immediately.
Pros: a resistant carbon barrel. pressures much higher than a steel one
Cons: if you shoot until the barrel becomes red hot you throw everything away. In fact there are no machine guns with a carbon barrel
.38SuperMan
Well-known member
^^^^
Thanks.
Sights used?
I put the T36 on my 6920, that now has a Geissele SS trigger.
Will take it to the 100yd Range along, with the K22M/8",
and has the 2.5-8x32mm Leupold.
The 460 will get some range time as well.
At some point it would be nice to get a Bolt or SS rifle, in 22LR,
that shoots as well as the Win 52D, that was my USAF issue for the Smallbore Team, in the late '60s
Might be a Ruger.
For our kids and grandkids.
Thanks.
Sights used?
I put the T36 on my 6920, that now has a Geissele SS trigger.
Will take it to the 100yd Range along, with the K22M/8",
and has the 2.5-8x32mm Leupold.
The 460 will get some range time as well.
At some point it would be nice to get a Bolt or SS rifle, in 22LR,
that shoots as well as the Win 52D, that was my USAF issue for the Smallbore Team, in the late '60s
Might be a Ruger.
For our kids and grandkids.
Attachments
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CAJUNLAWYER
Well-known member
Good explanation. Same thing with sails. Mylar, dacron etc sails will stretch and deform-slowing you down. Carbon fiber on the other hand looks perfect, sails perfect... and then all of a sudden BOOM! They shred and yer SOL.
Carbon fiber rudder posts, snapped, when the boats were backed up by waves. Fastnet '79.
The NAs, thought they were smarter than the boat builders.
I warned them, in the Winter of '77/'78 at Minneford, when we built the first ones, to their specs, even advised them as to the importance of internal bracing.
Gave them a colored drawing, of how to make them, and the older Portuguese builders said to me, some people have to learn the hard way.
The NAs, thought they were smarter than the boat builders.
I warned them, in the Winter of '77/'78 at Minneford, when we built the first ones, to their specs, even advised them as to the importance of internal bracing.
Gave them a colored drawing, of how to make them, and the older Portuguese builders said to me, some people have to learn the hard way.
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There is an article in the current Guns magazine on a gun with a CF wrapped barrel. One take home message from it is the barrel retains heat and accuracy suffers with many rounds shot quickly. I don’t have one so no idea of the veracity of this statement.
LVSteve
Well-known member
Read the same in a Rifleman piece. Makes the rifle light for carry in the mountains, but you probably wouldn't want a carbon wrapped barrel for a prairie dog hunt.
Somewhere I read that firing a rifle, every second or two, three hundred times, can get the barrel to 500-1200 degrees Fahrenheit.
Didn't say which cartridge.
Didn't say which cartridge.
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DWalt
Well-known member
The principal purpose of a CF-wrapped steel barrel is greater rigidity and improved barrel harmonics. That presumably results in tighter groups and greater group size consistency. CF is much more of a heat insulator than a heat conductor. If tighter and more consistent groups are what you think you need, a CF-wrapped steel barrel may be the answer if you have the $$$. To me, the CF barrel idea is absurd and preposterous as plain old steel barrels are more than suitable for my needs. And far less expensive.
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LittleCooner
Well-known member
Simple answer - Its a fad! Somewhat more detailed answer - lighter weight for those that desire to spend money on their hobby for a hunting rifle.
Proof started the fad years ago and they are great for hunting rifles because of the reduced weight. Do they enhance accuracy? not in my opinion, way to many other variables in rifle accuracy to pay the price for a carbon fiber barrel. they make a regular barrel, then turn down parts of the barrel and add the carbon fiber, for those that are financially challenged in reading between the lines, carbon fiber barrels are way more expensive that non carbon fiber barrels.
I do have one, I enjoy my rifles and have several total custom guns that I built over the years. My 6 creedmoor gun has a proof carbon barrel and yes, it is very accurate, it is my go to gun shooting steel at 1000 yards. I will never spend the money to buy another one and when this one is shot out, I may put a proof barrel back on the gun, but it will not be carbon fiber.
Nothing different here than we handgunners having to have a set of Kieth Brown grips on our favorite 29 or a golfer having to have a 2K driver in his group of clubs. We spend our money on crazy items in any hobby as guys.
If someone wants to debate the accuracy aspect, fire away, I have been shooting bench rest for 40 years and playing with accurate rifles for 50+. I enjoy my S&W revolvers, but I do not shoot them a great deal. I have burned many a pound of powder in the past 40 years shooting rifles at paper and measuring groups. Spending money on a carbon fiber barrel with the goal being "it will shoot smaller groups" puts one in the group P T Barnum spoke about being born all the time. Current state of the arts rifle work, you can build a rifle that weighs less that 5 pounds that will do hunting accuracy ( 3 round groups) as good or better than any carbon fiber barreled rifle one can build and with less money. Save your money and buy another revolver for the collection.
Proof started the fad years ago and they are great for hunting rifles because of the reduced weight. Do they enhance accuracy? not in my opinion, way to many other variables in rifle accuracy to pay the price for a carbon fiber barrel. they make a regular barrel, then turn down parts of the barrel and add the carbon fiber, for those that are financially challenged in reading between the lines, carbon fiber barrels are way more expensive that non carbon fiber barrels.
I do have one, I enjoy my rifles and have several total custom guns that I built over the years. My 6 creedmoor gun has a proof carbon barrel and yes, it is very accurate, it is my go to gun shooting steel at 1000 yards. I will never spend the money to buy another one and when this one is shot out, I may put a proof barrel back on the gun, but it will not be carbon fiber.
Nothing different here than we handgunners having to have a set of Kieth Brown grips on our favorite 29 or a golfer having to have a 2K driver in his group of clubs. We spend our money on crazy items in any hobby as guys.
If someone wants to debate the accuracy aspect, fire away, I have been shooting bench rest for 40 years and playing with accurate rifles for 50+. I enjoy my S&W revolvers, but I do not shoot them a great deal. I have burned many a pound of powder in the past 40 years shooting rifles at paper and measuring groups. Spending money on a carbon fiber barrel with the goal being "it will shoot smaller groups" puts one in the group P T Barnum spoke about being born all the time. Current state of the arts rifle work, you can build a rifle that weighs less that 5 pounds that will do hunting accuracy ( 3 round groups) as good or better than any carbon fiber barreled rifle one can build and with less money. Save your money and buy another revolver for the collection.
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rockquarry
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You can get a good quality barrel in a very slim configuration (#1 sporter) that will shoot at least as well as a carbon fiber barrel. Ask the owners of Ultra Light Arms rifles and perhaps the owners of other custom rifles with conventional barrels.
Sort of like the 5R barrel fad of a few years ago. Certainly good barrels but there are conventional barrels that will do just as well.
Sort of like the 5R barrel fad of a few years ago. Certainly good barrels but there are conventional barrels that will do just as well.
huntsman22
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Uhh, I wouldn't go so far as the underoo's... But, bolt knobs, barrels, knife scales, gearshifts and auto accessories, yeah....
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If you area hunter and lug a rifle around, then carbon fiber might help lighten the load a bit as it weighs less than steel. Hunters typically only take a few shots per hunt, so heat would really not be an issue on a hunting rifle.
For competition, range use, plinking & target shooting I would stick to conventional steel barrels. Weight is not really a big factor there and no worries about heat, cracking etc.
I shot a carbon fiber barreled high end 22RF about 5 years ago, a Cooper brand IIR and it was OK but nothing much different or special enough to warrant the extra expense IMHO. My friend who bought it is just into "different" - sort of the reason he bought it in the first place. As far as accuracy was concerned, it wasn't bad but did not hold a candle to my CZ 453 American!
For competition, range use, plinking & target shooting I would stick to conventional steel barrels. Weight is not really a big factor there and no worries about heat, cracking etc.
I shot a carbon fiber barreled high end 22RF about 5 years ago, a Cooper brand IIR and it was OK but nothing much different or special enough to warrant the extra expense IMHO. My friend who bought it is just into "different" - sort of the reason he bought it in the first place. As far as accuracy was concerned, it wasn't bad but did not hold a candle to my CZ 453 American!
Autonomous
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I read somewhere (C. A. Marchaj?) Al rudder posts were wrapped with CF and some thought they could add their stiffness together without taking flexibility into consideration.
Is there any truth to that?
Thanks.
DWalt
Well-known member
Whether a CF-wrapped steel barrel is more “accurate” (actually “precise” is a better term) has not been mentioned. Someone who is a bench rest shooter or sniper is better qualified to discuss. For the average shooter, firing a few five-shot groups at 100 yards does not come anywhere close to providing statistically reliable evidence that one barrel type produces better grouping performance over another, all other factors remaining equal. So where is the evidence that a CF-wrapped steel barrel is superior?
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