Need Opinions on Progressive Presses
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Dale53
Member
My choice has been carefully thought out over a period of time.
I have two Dillon 550B's. When you factor in the cost of different caliber tool heads, my pick is the Dillon 550B. The 650's are faster but considerably more expensive when you factor the change over costs.
I have NO problem with manual advance and do both rifle and pistol. The reloading rate is 400-500 per hour depending on the operator. I always suggest that your emphasis should be on QUALITY of reload and NOT speed of reload. However, I would not EVER willingly go back to a single station press.
I have a number of reloading presses. My RCBS Rock Chucker single stage handles case forming chores. My Lee Classic Turret handles small runs (under 200 rounds) of specialty loads. The Lee progressives are un-reliable unless you are a master mechanic. They are NOT user friendly.
You absolutely CANNOT beat Dillon service...
Dale53
I have two Dillon 550B's. When you factor in the cost of different caliber tool heads, my pick is the Dillon 550B. The 650's are faster but considerably more expensive when you factor the change over costs.
I have NO problem with manual advance and do both rifle and pistol. The reloading rate is 400-500 per hour depending on the operator. I always suggest that your emphasis should be on QUALITY of reload and NOT speed of reload. However, I would not EVER willingly go back to a single station press.
I have a number of reloading presses. My RCBS Rock Chucker single stage handles case forming chores. My Lee Classic Turret handles small runs (under 200 rounds) of specialty loads. The Lee progressives are un-reliable unless you are a master mechanic. They are NOT user friendly.
You absolutely CANNOT beat Dillon service...
Dale53
I've had a Hornady LNL AP for about 3 years now, upgraded from a Lee Anniversary kit (the single stage Challenger press). I have never used any other press, so I can't really compare to those.
One factor I don't see mentioned much is ease of setting up your dies. I think the Hornady LNL (bushing) system shines here. Dies are screwed into bushings, which are then individually locked into the press. They can be inserted/removed quickly and easily, without losing the settings.
When I set up my press, I put in just one die at a time, set it, remove it, and on to the next. I never have to touch the settings again. Caliber change over is trivial - pop out the old dies, insert new ones, change shell plate, change primer system (also easy to do, requires changing 3 parts).
This is a big deal when adjusting the powder measure. It uses a powder die, which screws into bushing like the other dies. I have a separate powder die for each caliber, since it is case activated and must be adjusted for the length of the case.
I put the powder measure on the press all by itself, adjusting and throwing many test charges until I'm confident it is correct. Then I plug in the rest of the dies in and start loading.
The LNL system makes it easy to concentrate on just one thing at a time when getting the press set up. I don't think the removable toolhead systems are as easy to set up.
Another factor is ease of recovering from a stoppage (which WILL happen). The Hornady has a spring that wraps around the shell plate and holds the shells in. It is easy to remove/insert cases at any station, not just the first/last.
I only have 2 real gripes with the Hornady:
1) The powder does not have any positive way to force it to reset, it depends on a spring. If the powder measure gets hung up and doesn't reset, it quits throwing powder and if you aren't watching you get squibs. I use an RCBS lockout die to protect against this.
2) Shell ejection is not 100%. The EZ-Eject system is a huge improvement, but I occasionally still get one that won't.
Hornady's customer service is excellent. I've broken a few parts on the press, and had to send it back for the EZ-Eject upgrade because I stripped a screw trying to do it myself. I've never been charged a penny for a repair.
One factor I don't see mentioned much is ease of setting up your dies. I think the Hornady LNL (bushing) system shines here. Dies are screwed into bushings, which are then individually locked into the press. They can be inserted/removed quickly and easily, without losing the settings.
When I set up my press, I put in just one die at a time, set it, remove it, and on to the next. I never have to touch the settings again. Caliber change over is trivial - pop out the old dies, insert new ones, change shell plate, change primer system (also easy to do, requires changing 3 parts).
This is a big deal when adjusting the powder measure. It uses a powder die, which screws into bushing like the other dies. I have a separate powder die for each caliber, since it is case activated and must be adjusted for the length of the case.
I put the powder measure on the press all by itself, adjusting and throwing many test charges until I'm confident it is correct. Then I plug in the rest of the dies in and start loading.
The LNL system makes it easy to concentrate on just one thing at a time when getting the press set up. I don't think the removable toolhead systems are as easy to set up.
Another factor is ease of recovering from a stoppage (which WILL happen). The Hornady has a spring that wraps around the shell plate and holds the shells in. It is easy to remove/insert cases at any station, not just the first/last.
I only have 2 real gripes with the Hornady:
1) The powder does not have any positive way to force it to reset, it depends on a spring. If the powder measure gets hung up and doesn't reset, it quits throwing powder and if you aren't watching you get squibs. I use an RCBS lockout die to protect against this.
2) Shell ejection is not 100%. The EZ-Eject system is a huge improvement, but I occasionally still get one that won't.
Hornady's customer service is excellent. I've broken a few parts on the press, and had to send it back for the EZ-Eject upgrade because I stripped a screw trying to do it myself. I've never been charged a penny for a repair.
mstuhr
Member
I'm with wee hooker
Howdy,
I'm with Wee Hooker, I'd rather have a Lee 1000 than a Square deal.
Tell Sackett makes sense too. When I am done loading on the 1000's I have to run everything through a Lee factory crimp die so a five station press would help.
I did have a Loadmaster for a while but I prefer the 1000's
The Lees work pretty good but have to be mounted to something rock solid to preform their best.
I had a buddy who bought one after seeing me load on mine and he bitched and bitched about it. I went to see if I could help him and he had it clamped to a kitchen like table in his shop.
It takes a big heavy bench bolted to the walls to make the 1000's hum.
I have three set up. One for .38, .45 and 9mm. The old .45 machine has seen untold amounts of use. I do have to tune them from time to time. Rebuild is cheap and easy.
I also lube it every time prior to use.
I have nothing bad to say about the Dillion 500 and up series either other than I am cheap and the Lees serve me well.
Good luck.
Mike
Howdy,
I'm with Wee Hooker, I'd rather have a Lee 1000 than a Square deal.
Tell Sackett makes sense too. When I am done loading on the 1000's I have to run everything through a Lee factory crimp die so a five station press would help.
I did have a Loadmaster for a while but I prefer the 1000's
The Lees work pretty good but have to be mounted to something rock solid to preform their best.
I had a buddy who bought one after seeing me load on mine and he bitched and bitched about it. I went to see if I could help him and he had it clamped to a kitchen like table in his shop.
It takes a big heavy bench bolted to the walls to make the 1000's hum.
I have three set up. One for .38, .45 and 9mm. The old .45 machine has seen untold amounts of use. I do have to tune them from time to time. Rebuild is cheap and easy.
I also lube it every time prior to use.
I have nothing bad to say about the Dillion 500 and up series either other than I am cheap and the Lees serve me well.
Good luck.
Mike
oldRoger
US Veteran
Not to dampen you enthusiasm, but......
First; take the manufactures' rounds per hour figures for what they are, theory not practical fact.
You have primer tubes to fill & change, bullets and brass to place, loaded rounds to move, powder to fill, rounds to QC check, etc. Unless you can shanghai a competent assistant to do the numerous tasks required, you are not going to see 500 rounds/hour. Since most of us do these tasks ourselves, strictly speaking we should include all of the time spent from bench setup through loading and back to a clean bench in our figures.
I have a L-N-L with the latest up grades, I like and recommend it.
I am able to switch the press from say 10mm to .45 quite fast, however, when switching to a different primer size time must be added. Normally switching requires a powder change and certainly a reset of the measure. In addition it requires a clean-off and regrouping of bullets, brass, etc, etc.
I know a guy who does some reloading for his pistol club, he has several old Stars and a couple of other presses including a Hollywood, and they remain setup for each individual caliber, powder/charge, and bullet. To do this requires a very large space and very considerable investment.
IMO it's a mistake to run low volume stuff on a progressive. I like to change bullets, try different powders, work up loads, etc.
A progressive just gets in my way for this work. I have a couple of single stage presses which I can use for this sort of thing and almost always use them for .357 & .44 spl, because I probably will never settle on one bullet/load. For a batch of one hundred I can setup, load, break down, and clean up the single stages much more quickly than any progressive I have used.
What I do is clean, size, expand and prime a bunch of cases, and have them ready for my next brilliant reloading idea.
Unless you are using you reloads for some run & gun sport, You will probably not need a large quantity of one load. You may want lots of a single load for .223 I suppose, and this is worth a set-up.
First; take the manufactures' rounds per hour figures for what they are, theory not practical fact.
You have primer tubes to fill & change, bullets and brass to place, loaded rounds to move, powder to fill, rounds to QC check, etc. Unless you can shanghai a competent assistant to do the numerous tasks required, you are not going to see 500 rounds/hour. Since most of us do these tasks ourselves, strictly speaking we should include all of the time spent from bench setup through loading and back to a clean bench in our figures.
I have a L-N-L with the latest up grades, I like and recommend it.
I am able to switch the press from say 10mm to .45 quite fast, however, when switching to a different primer size time must be added. Normally switching requires a powder change and certainly a reset of the measure. In addition it requires a clean-off and regrouping of bullets, brass, etc, etc.
I know a guy who does some reloading for his pistol club, he has several old Stars and a couple of other presses including a Hollywood, and they remain setup for each individual caliber, powder/charge, and bullet. To do this requires a very large space and very considerable investment.
IMO it's a mistake to run low volume stuff on a progressive. I like to change bullets, try different powders, work up loads, etc.
A progressive just gets in my way for this work. I have a couple of single stage presses which I can use for this sort of thing and almost always use them for .357 & .44 spl, because I probably will never settle on one bullet/load. For a batch of one hundred I can setup, load, break down, and clean up the single stages much more quickly than any progressive I have used.
What I do is clean, size, expand and prime a bunch of cases, and have them ready for my next brilliant reloading idea.
Unless you are using you reloads for some run & gun sport, You will probably not need a large quantity of one load. You may want lots of a single load for .223 I suppose, and this is worth a set-up.
We have loaded a lot of rounds over the years, wore out a Pro 1000 and a Loadmaster and have been loading with Dillons since 1992 and they don't wear out, one machine is a Dillon 1000 com. that we bought from a reloader who had it for 11 years. Still going strong ( .223's only) It is the only one not covered by the no BS warranty. We have one 650 , two 550's and the big 1000. It's hard to go wrong with Dillon
wheelgun28
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamprat View Post
One does not need carbide dies to reload .223, or any other rifle caliber for that matter. Carbide dies are available, but you will still need to lubricate the cases.
Like others have stated, the 550 is likely the best bang for your buck.
And exactly how do you clean the lube off in a progressive?
Reply With Quote
No you dont need carbide dies for the bottle neck cases. Even with carbide you need to use lube or it will stick, trust me
How ever you dont need to use a roll pad or a similar thing. I use Hornady one shot. Its a spray can just spray some into the bin or cases, shake it spray a bit more. Let them dry for like five min. Dump them in to the case feeder and start loading. It does not need to be removed, you can give a wipe after its loaded but I dont feel it on the brass.
Depending on the brass being used my procedure changes to omit steps not needed. Lets go worst case, range pick up military brass.
1)Examine for damage
2)tumble for an hour or so
3)Lube as above
4) set up press to almost fully size and deprime. If case needs length to be trimmed, set up trimmer in press at this time.
5) dump shells in to case feed and cycle press till complete. Not much thinking here, just be sure to give full strokes of the lever
6) Use swage to remove primer crimp, inspect close at this time (boring)
7) Tumble another hour or two till they look like new brass
8) set up press with powder and loading dies. Be sure case is resized to gauge.
9) load shells in hopper and make bullets
with an auto primer filler, boat tail bullets and the press set up right, I can do well over 700 an hour from step nine till complete.
If I just did the 223 stuff, Id get the Dillon 1050, it can swage the primer pockets in the press. That saves a lot of time.
I load for more than just myself, my shooting friend gets half or more of the rounds generally.
added
its not hard to do load development on the press at all. I made some new 357 mags today. Six with 12.5g of 2400 and six with 13.5 of 2400. Its not hard. Just remove the primer feed cam, one screw. They you can cycle the press one round at a time if you want. Just manually index the primer when you want one.
Originally Posted by swamprat View Post
One does not need carbide dies to reload .223, or any other rifle caliber for that matter. Carbide dies are available, but you will still need to lubricate the cases.
Like others have stated, the 550 is likely the best bang for your buck.
And exactly how do you clean the lube off in a progressive?
Reply With Quote
No you dont need carbide dies for the bottle neck cases. Even with carbide you need to use lube or it will stick, trust me
How ever you dont need to use a roll pad or a similar thing. I use Hornady one shot. Its a spray can just spray some into the bin or cases, shake it spray a bit more. Let them dry for like five min. Dump them in to the case feeder and start loading. It does not need to be removed, you can give a wipe after its loaded but I dont feel it on the brass.
Depending on the brass being used my procedure changes to omit steps not needed. Lets go worst case, range pick up military brass.
1)Examine for damage
2)tumble for an hour or so
3)Lube as above
4) set up press to almost fully size and deprime. If case needs length to be trimmed, set up trimmer in press at this time.
5) dump shells in to case feed and cycle press till complete. Not much thinking here, just be sure to give full strokes of the lever
6) Use swage to remove primer crimp, inspect close at this time (boring)
7) Tumble another hour or two till they look like new brass
8) set up press with powder and loading dies. Be sure case is resized to gauge.
9) load shells in hopper and make bullets
with an auto primer filler, boat tail bullets and the press set up right, I can do well over 700 an hour from step nine till complete.
If I just did the 223 stuff, Id get the Dillon 1050, it can swage the primer pockets in the press. That saves a lot of time.
I load for more than just myself, my shooting friend gets half or more of the rounds generally.
added
its not hard to do load development on the press at all. I made some new 357 mags today. Six with 12.5g of 2400 and six with 13.5 of 2400. Its not hard. Just remove the primer feed cam, one screw. They you can cycle the press one round at a time if you want. Just manually index the primer when you want one.
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Oldroger- I kind of thought that the rounds per hr. from the manufacturer sounds pretty optimistic.
I will mostly use this press for .357 and .45 because those are the guns that I shoot a lot. I use the same two guns for idpa,steel, and bowling pins as well as plinking, and home defense. I have two loads for each, a plinker and a hotter load. I probably shoot 800-1000 rounds between these two calibers per month. That is why I wanted to know about ease of cailber changes. The only rifle round I even considered is .223 because I will just load up a bulk of cheaper ammo to plink with my ar. I will continue to load my other rifle calibers on a single stage beacuse I have certain loads that I just feel more comfortable loading by one at a time because they are at the higher end of the pressure curve and I feel that I can better control quality that way. That and I only shoot a couple hundred rounds a year out of those rifles. And if change overs aren't that easy or fast I will just continue to use a single stage for the .41,.44,and .454 as I just use them for some hunting and ocassional plinking. Thank you to everyone that has spoke up so far.
I will mostly use this press for .357 and .45 because those are the guns that I shoot a lot. I use the same two guns for idpa,steel, and bowling pins as well as plinking, and home defense. I have two loads for each, a plinker and a hotter load. I probably shoot 800-1000 rounds between these two calibers per month. That is why I wanted to know about ease of cailber changes. The only rifle round I even considered is .223 because I will just load up a bulk of cheaper ammo to plink with my ar. I will continue to load my other rifle calibers on a single stage beacuse I have certain loads that I just feel more comfortable loading by one at a time because they are at the higher end of the pressure curve and I feel that I can better control quality that way. That and I only shoot a couple hundred rounds a year out of those rifles. And if change overs aren't that easy or fast I will just continue to use a single stage for the .41,.44,and .454 as I just use them for some hunting and ocassional plinking. Thank you to everyone that has spoke up so far.
Mezzanine
Member
New guy here, but not new to reloading or other forums... I can't add much to what some of the other members here have suggested, but I would put in another vote for the Dillon 550. This is the easiest and cheapest way to load multiple calibers of all the dillon presses. The square deal is a cheaper machine, but if you are going to go with as many calibers as you list, then a 550 is for you. The quality will be excellent, and production is fast and easy. I have two set up in my shop, and I have loaded somewhere in the neighborhood of 25,000 rounds over the last few years. Good luck with your purchase!
oldRoger
US Veteran
IMO you need to have 5 stations on your progressive. So I would eliminate those with fewer, I would not run without a powder cop and separate crimp station. Auto indexing is also a must for me.
Switching from .357 to .45 is not a problem but does require all of the changes noted including primer size. To make it worthwhile I think runs of 3-400 rounds minimum make sense and given your two loads per caliber a little planning can make this all smooth and quick.You will need a couple of extra primer tubes filled and ready when you start.
Hornadys Powder Measure if equipped with the pistol rotor and micrometer is quick to change and reproducible for what amounts to a small amount of powder.
I don't load 10s of thousands of rounds a month, so I have no idea how long the L-N-L will last, I see no signs of wear yet.
I think Hornadys price is very competitive, the equipment well designed, and I at least have had good results with their customer service.
Since I don't load rifle ammunition on the progressive, I really shouldn't comment on that aspect of it.
Switching from .357 to .45 is not a problem but does require all of the changes noted including primer size. To make it worthwhile I think runs of 3-400 rounds minimum make sense and given your two loads per caliber a little planning can make this all smooth and quick.You will need a couple of extra primer tubes filled and ready when you start.
Hornadys Powder Measure if equipped with the pistol rotor and micrometer is quick to change and reproducible for what amounts to a small amount of powder.
I don't load 10s of thousands of rounds a month, so I have no idea how long the L-N-L will last, I see no signs of wear yet.
I think Hornadys price is very competitive, the equipment well designed, and I at least have had good results with their customer service.
Since I don't load rifle ammunition on the progressive, I really shouldn't comment on that aspect of it.
Andy Griffith
Member
I have to go with OldRoger...as I too am a Hornady LNL-AP user. I've played with the Dillons, and I just like my Hornady set up better. I can't say that it is as fast, but I do load nearly every pistol caliber and rifle from .22Hornet and .32-20 up to .45-70, .264 Winchester and .300 Weatherby. It's a great reliable press and I can't argue with Hornady's customer service.
I busted the sub plate on my press being stupid. To replace it would have been $90.00- they sent me an updated sub plate free of charge!!!
They are good people.
I busted the sub plate on my press being stupid. To replace it would have been $90.00- they sent me an updated sub plate free of charge!!!
They are good people.
I have a Dillon 550. I am happy with it. I would be happier if it had 5 atations like the 650 so I could use a powder check. IF MONEY IS NOT AN OBJECT, I'd go to a 650. Money is a consideration for me, so I'll stick with the 550. The cost of adding a caliber is close to $100 with the 550, quite a bit more for the 650. hough I'd like to have a couple of guns in calibers I don't already load for, (.45 ACP, .38/.357, 9mm), I hesitate due to the set up cost of the additional caliber. In addition to the loading setup, there's also bullet molds, sizing dies, top pinch, etc. that add to the cost as well.
I talked to Dillon a while back, and one can use the powder check with a 550. However, one has to add the bullet at station 4 and seat and crimp in one operation. The one step seat/crimp isn't too much of an issue, but reaching around to the back to add a bullet is not very ergonomic. Also, I prefer using the Lee factory crimp die, and obviously would have to forgo this step.
A double charge/no charge is easy to spot in a short fat case like the .45 ACP, but in a tall skinny case like the .357 it's much harder to see.
I talked to Dillon a while back, and one can use the powder check with a 550. However, one has to add the bullet at station 4 and seat and crimp in one operation. The one step seat/crimp isn't too much of an issue, but reaching around to the back to add a bullet is not very ergonomic. Also, I prefer using the Lee factory crimp die, and obviously would have to forgo this step.
A double charge/no charge is easy to spot in a short fat case like the .45 ACP, but in a tall skinny case like the .357 it's much harder to see.
VAdoublegunner
Member
Another satisfied Hornady LNL-AP user. So satisfied in fact that I have 2 of them. I tried Dillons before I got my first LNL. They are an OK machine, but many things about the Hornady work better for me and you will have to go with at least a Dillon 650 to get the features of the LNL AP.
Forget the round count per hour BS. It isn't an accurate representation of the real world anyway and either one of them will produce at about the same speed in a real world (i.e., *S-A-F-E*) scenario. Also forget the warranty BS. Hornady backs up their product the same way Dillon does.
What I like about the Hornady is the ease of adjustment, quick, simple changeover from Small to Large primers, and super easy changeover of dies. Takes all of 30 seconds to change dies with the LNL system. Even if you have to change primer sizes or adjust the powder measure height for different case lengths it is very quickly and easily done within about 5 minutes. There is NO additional cost to adding a caliber other than buying 3 bushings, and those are comparatively cheap in a 10-pack (about $3 apiece). Or you can just set the lock rings and move dies from bushing to bushing like a conventional press, still pretty quick.
I considered a Lee Classic Turret for rifle length cartridges. No auto progressive handles those particularly well because of stick powders. But the LNL seems to work fine for .223, ball powders meter well, and that's all I load much in high volume for rifles anyway.
Forget the round count per hour BS. It isn't an accurate representation of the real world anyway and either one of them will produce at about the same speed in a real world (i.e., *S-A-F-E*) scenario. Also forget the warranty BS. Hornady backs up their product the same way Dillon does.
What I like about the Hornady is the ease of adjustment, quick, simple changeover from Small to Large primers, and super easy changeover of dies. Takes all of 30 seconds to change dies with the LNL system. Even if you have to change primer sizes or adjust the powder measure height for different case lengths it is very quickly and easily done within about 5 minutes. There is NO additional cost to adding a caliber other than buying 3 bushings, and those are comparatively cheap in a 10-pack (about $3 apiece). Or you can just set the lock rings and move dies from bushing to bushing like a conventional press, still pretty quick.
I considered a Lee Classic Turret for rifle length cartridges. No auto progressive handles those particularly well because of stick powders. But the LNL seems to work fine for .223, ball powders meter well, and that's all I load much in high volume for rifles anyway.
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I'm a Dillon 650 fan. It was my first press. (my only press for a number of years).
I can easily poop out 750 rounds an hour. You need to have the primer tubes full, the clean brass at hand, powder at hand, bullets at hand and a case feeder.
I can do this safely without breaking a sweat. I suggest a low-powder warning (for the reservoir ) and a powder-check for station 3.
It's an unbeatable press if you want to spend more time shooting and less time reloading.
On the 650 I reload:
.32 S&W Long
.32 H&R Magnum
.38 S&W
.38 Special - Flush HBWCs
.38 Special
.357 Magnum
.357 Maximum
.380 ACP
.41 Magnum
.44 Special
.44 Magnum
.45 Colt
.45 ACP
.45 Auto Rim
Bob
I can easily poop out 750 rounds an hour. You need to have the primer tubes full, the clean brass at hand, powder at hand, bullets at hand and a case feeder.
I can do this safely without breaking a sweat. I suggest a low-powder warning (for the reservoir ) and a powder-check for station 3.
It's an unbeatable press if you want to spend more time shooting and less time reloading.
On the 650 I reload:
.32 S&W Long
.32 H&R Magnum
.38 S&W
.38 Special - Flush HBWCs
.38 Special
.357 Magnum
.357 Maximum
.380 ACP
.41 Magnum
.44 Special
.44 Magnum
.45 Colt
.45 ACP
.45 Auto Rim
Bob
oldRoger
US Veteran
Your results may vary!
About production figures, to quote an old expert;"Your results may vary"! When all is said and done, there is a lot of prep work to be accomplished before we get to the cranking stage.
In the engineering trade, we had to look very carefully at set-up, tear down, and clean-up times. Added together with the material handling times incident to production, the cyclic rate of the machine is usually not the critical component when measuring throughput.
If you look at the Dillion catalog you will see a beautiful machine to load primer tubes, because you will spend appreciable time filling them manually.
Case feeders are grand also, dump and load, beautiful!
I doubt that any prog. press allows changes faster than the L-N-L, nor for that matter more cheaply.
Setting aside the cost of your basic dies and any makers work, I use a mix, you would need a shell plate ($29), powder through expander ($10) and as doublegunner points out the bushings. You can pick-up various odds-and-ends that speed up changeovers, but that is all you need. $50 tops.
I consider a pistol rotor a requirement for any good set-up, single stage or progressive. The general purpose rotors are simply too large for accurately metering small amounts of powder.
The Dillion Fans abound and for good reason the 650 & 1000 are very fine presses.
If I anticipated running one load in one caliber in quantity 2000-3000 a month or more, I would strongly consider a Dillion which would be set-up to run that load and never tinkered with. You might say that is Dillion's bread and butter.
For me though lacking the space to leave presses set-up and ready to go and unwilling to invest the money if I had the space, the L-N-L works out just fine. Should I ever settle on one .357 load it would be easy and inexpensive to set-up for it.
About production figures, to quote an old expert;"Your results may vary"! When all is said and done, there is a lot of prep work to be accomplished before we get to the cranking stage.
In the engineering trade, we had to look very carefully at set-up, tear down, and clean-up times. Added together with the material handling times incident to production, the cyclic rate of the machine is usually not the critical component when measuring throughput.
If you look at the Dillion catalog you will see a beautiful machine to load primer tubes, because you will spend appreciable time filling them manually.
Case feeders are grand also, dump and load, beautiful!
I doubt that any prog. press allows changes faster than the L-N-L, nor for that matter more cheaply.
Setting aside the cost of your basic dies and any makers work, I use a mix, you would need a shell plate ($29), powder through expander ($10) and as doublegunner points out the bushings. You can pick-up various odds-and-ends that speed up changeovers, but that is all you need. $50 tops.
I consider a pistol rotor a requirement for any good set-up, single stage or progressive. The general purpose rotors are simply too large for accurately metering small amounts of powder.
The Dillion Fans abound and for good reason the 650 & 1000 are very fine presses.
If I anticipated running one load in one caliber in quantity 2000-3000 a month or more, I would strongly consider a Dillion which would be set-up to run that load and never tinkered with. You might say that is Dillion's bread and butter.
For me though lacking the space to leave presses set-up and ready to go and unwilling to invest the money if I had the space, the L-N-L works out just fine. Should I ever settle on one .357 load it would be easy and inexpensive to set-up for it.
Andy Griffith
Member
+1 on having as many bushings as possible for quick change overs!
The only thing I can't say I've ever used is powder through expanders...I've never seen a need for them for myself. I do have a three extra "bottom assemblies" for my powder measure set up one for .38's, one for .45 Colts- one that I can change to anything else.
I have the dillon 550 that I bought when they were 199.00 so it has been a few years. Currently load for 41 different rifle and pistol calibers. Only regret I have is I didn't buy another one at that time. Love the dillon and have only had one parts breakage and a new one from dillon three days later.
Faulkner
Member
Another Dillon 550 user here. I load three different calibers; .40 S&W with a Dillon factory die set, 9mm with RCPS dies, and .30 carbine with Redding dies. Only the Dillon Square Deal press uses proprietary dies, the other Dillon presses use standard dies sets.
In contrast to old Rogers comments, I can easily load 400+ rounds an hour of handgun ammo from start up to clean up with my setup. My typical loading session is for about 3 or 4 hours once a month or so. Even changing from .40 to 9mm only takes about 7 or 8 minutes, though going to or from .30 carbine takes about 15 minutes to make the appropriate changes.
When I was first looking to getting into reloading over a decade ago the main advice I got was if you like to tinker get a Lee, if you want to turn out ammo get a Dillon. Can't say firsthand if that's a fair assessment of a Lee, but I can say I don't have to tinker with my Dillon.
In contrast to old Rogers comments, I can easily load 400+ rounds an hour of handgun ammo from start up to clean up with my setup. My typical loading session is for about 3 or 4 hours once a month or so. Even changing from .40 to 9mm only takes about 7 or 8 minutes, though going to or from .30 carbine takes about 15 minutes to make the appropriate changes.
When I was first looking to getting into reloading over a decade ago the main advice I got was if you like to tinker get a Lee, if you want to turn out ammo get a Dillon. Can't say firsthand if that's a fair assessment of a Lee, but I can say I don't have to tinker with my Dillon.
Why do you need to clean the lube off while in the press? Wait till the round is loaded and use the method of your choice. I give mine about 5 minutes in the tumbler with clean corn cob media and touch of rubbing alcohol.
Beaver
Member
Which of the popular progressive presses have a powder check function and how do they work? My first attempt at a progessive was not good due to interruptions. Boy I learned a lot that day. Lock yourself in a room and don't allow disturbances.
