Another Police Agency Adopts the S&W

tocohillsguy

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
535
Reaction score
46
Location
metro Atlanta
DeKalb police beef up firepower
By Megan Matteucci


The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

8:05 p.m. Sunday, January 24, 2010

Gangs and drug traffickers have ditched their pistols for assault rifles and other military-style firearms, leaving police outgunned.

To beef up its arsenal, DeKalb County Police is trading in its 9 mm handguns for .40-caliber weapons, which are more effective.

Last week, the county commission approved the purchase of 1,200 Smith & Wesson .40-caliber handguns to replace the force's Berettas.

"A common weapon on the streets is a .40-caliber," acting DeKalb police Chief William O'Brien said. "We're a little behind the times with the 9 mm."

Most officers in the metro area, and across the nation, carry .40-caliber handguns. Some, like DeKalb, give officers the option to carry higher-powered weapons as long as they are trained.

For O'Brien, the problem was two-fold : The department's 9 mm Berettas were more than 20 years old and no longer manufactured.

"We couldn't replace them," he said.

Officers on the streets also found their 9 mm guns could not compete with those in the hands of criminals armed with .40-caliber handguns and assault rifles.

"We got some pretty heinous weapons," DeKalb District Attorney Gwen Keyes Fleming said. "We're seeing AK-47s, street sweepers, military style weapons. It's not just your mom's pistol any more."

Last year, the county tested weapons from four different manufacturers who submitted bids.

"We brought all of the weapons to the range," O'Brien said. "Officers could go shoot each one and fill out a survey. This model was chosen by the majority officers."

Commissioner Lee May said he was pleased the decision was made by officers, not the administration.

"They chose what's best for them," he said. "It's about the officers being safe."

The $207,475 contract will pay for 1,200 guns, holsters and magazines to outfit the department.

Atlanta Police officers also carry .40-caliber Smith & Wesson guns. The department is considering arming its force with assault rifles, but is still doing research on the benefits of the weapons, said Officer Otis Redmond, a police spokesman.

DeKalb's SWAT team, which is armed with MP5, 9 mm submachine guns, is usually called out any time officers encounter suspects with high-caliber weapons.

Patrol officers, however, have the option of increasing their firepower.

DeKalb allows an officer to purchase his or her own AR-15, a semi-automatic rifle similar to an M16. The officer can carry it on duty only after passing a specific 40-hour training class and qualifying at the county's range, O'Brien said.

Firearms experts say most law-enforcement agencies across the nation are moving toward the .40-caliber because it can stop a threat more effectively.

"This bullet is slower than the 9 mm but is bigger and has more impact," DeKalb deputy Chief Diane Loos said.

Bullets expand like an umbrella when they strike the tissue. Because the new bullets are larger – the 9 mm is about a third of an inch in diameter, while the .40-caliber is slightly wider – they go deeper and cause a larger wound, according to John Finor, first vice president of the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners.

"The .40 will have a much larger projectile," Finor said. "Your chances of stopping an aggressive action or someone who is a threat is much greater."

Finor, who retired from Philadelphia Police after 32 years, serves as the firearms examiner for the Montgomery County, Penn., district attorney, testing bullets for about 50 different police agencies.

Finor said many law enforcement agencies across the nation began looking at increasing firepower in the late 1990s after Los Angeles Police officers were outgunned during a bank robbery and shootout.

"For firepower, we're seeing lots of patrol officers starting to carry AR-15s and other patrol rifles because of the threat of coming in contact with the assault rifle," Finor said. "When you see major cities allowing officers to carry patrol rifles, that speaks volumes about the crime situation."

O'Brien said his officers routinely come in contact with assault rifles and other "serious" weapons.

In September, DeKalb officers arrested a man who had slipped out of handcuffs and stolen a Duluth police cruiser. When apprehended, he was carrying an AR-15 that he had stolen from the Duluth officer, police said.

"The criminal element has more powerful weapons. We want equal firepower. It's just a sign of the time," said Commissioner Larry Johnson, the commission's presiding officer. "If it protects one officer, it's a worthy investment."

In 2009, 47 officers were shot and killed in the line of duty in the U.S. – a 24-percent increase from the previous year, according to the National Law Enforcement Memorial Fund.

In April, three Pittsburgh officers were killed and twowounded after a man armed with an AK-47 opened fire during a standoff. A month earlier, three officers died in Oakland, Calif., when a suspect opened fire with an assault rifle.

"We've been lucky that we haven't had any casualties, but we want to be prepared," O'Brien said.

Box:

What are they packing?

DeKalb Police: .40-cal. Smith & Wesson

DeKalb Sheriff: .40-cal. H&K

Atlanta Police: .40-cal. Smith & Wesson

Fulton Police: .45-cal. Glock

Clayton Sheriff: .40-cal. Glock

Clayton Police: .40-cal. Glock

Cobb Police: .40-cal.

Gwinnett Police: 9 mm*

*Officers can purchase higher-caliber weapons on their own.
 
Register to hide this ad
That price works out to $172.89 each for gun, holster and accessories. That's a pretty good price for a .40 M&P. Curious the value of the trade in allowance for the old Beretta's.
 
It's hard to believe at a minimum of one new holster an M&P .40 for that price. S&W has to give them $200 for trade in and that's a stretch.
 
Departments do not pay Fed Excise tax and to sell a major department is good advertising for S&W. S&W has done this with serveral agencies ,look patches in some of the current magazine ads.
 
When I was on the job I had to buy my own equipment. I figured out that it cost me about $125 just to put on my pistol belt, with holster, mag pouch, mace carrier and cuff pouch. That did not include the cost of my weapon, mags and ammo. The cost of a good shoulder holster for off duty wasn't cheap either. Either the gun is a giveaway or the PD news clip is in error about actual costs for accessories.
I wouldn't want to absorb the training costs for a new pistol and first time qualification either. Toyman has a good point about taxes and advertisements.
 
Last edited:
What 9mm Berettas were they using 20 years ago that are no longer manufactured? The Model 92, which they were probably using, is still in production and will likely be so for many years.
 
This whole piece just seems so sophomorish to me. Coming from the Alanta Urinal and Constipation I'm sure it is a bit jaded. How can the Dekalb Co officers be "out gunned" yet the U.S. Military, armed with 9mm Berettas on the battle field are not? It's pure tactics, and the article already explained that when the patrol officers come across criminals with military style rifles or automatic weapons, they simply call in the SWAT. Its laughable that the article implies that these same officers are going to be adequately armed with a .40 cal hand gun against these same military style rifles. If "bigger" is "better" as the article says, why not just move up to the proven 45ACP? I know I am preaching to the choir on here, but these type of articles are just so cheesy and seemed aimed at the Brady Bunch type of gullable anti-gunowner readers.
 
I'm glad to see that they're upgrading. Anything to help ensure
that they all get to go home after their shift. Was just wondering, tho,
about the perceived threat that this upgrade is trying to meet.
While there's no doubt in my mind that the Bad Guys have lots of
powerful and advanced weaponry, I don't remember hearing about
blood-bath shoot-outs where the weapons were that much of a factor.
Is this something that doesn't get publicised?
Whatever the case, more power to the LEO's for getting a voice
in weapon selection.
TACC1
 
Good for them although I don't see going to the .40 from the 9mm as being an upgrade, YMMV though.
 
:eek::eek::eek:

Seems the civilian market is really getting ripped. Not a little mark up, but a bunch.

Two comments:

1. Police are CIVILIANS. There is either military or civilians. Police, despite wanting, perhaps, to be military, are not. They are civilians. What you might have meant is that the COMMERCIAL market is getting ripped.

2. It is not unusual for the commercial market to get ripped at the expense of the government contract. When the military adopted the Beretta in 1985, the price per pistol was comfortably UNDER $200.00 while the commercial dealer price was well over twice that amount.
 
So full of misinformation its not even funny. Glad to see another department switch to the M&P but saying the main reason is that they were outgunned by the .40cal........ :rolleyes:

No one tell them that badguys have access to the potent 44mag or there going to have to upgrade to S&W500s. :D
 
Also noticed that they are being outgunned by their own guns at are stolen (thug escapes, steals police cruiser with AR15)! What logic is that statement supposed to mean. I also want to know what Beretta they have is no longer in production (they buy 9mm Cougers?)

CD
 
They were possibly using the 92D. Up here, agencies are dropping Beretta's 96D faster than one can imagine because Beretta won't provide parts support. Most are going to Glocks, mostly due to cost and tupperware envy, unfortunatly my agency went with the PX-4D, it pains me to say this, but I would have taken a Glock over this beast.
 
Gimme a Gran Fury with a 440, an 8-track player for the slow nights, and a 4 inch K frame 357 and I'll be just fine.
 
Two comments:

1. Police are CIVILIANS. There is either military or civilians. Police, despite wanting, perhaps, to be military, are not. They are civilians. What you might have meant is that the COMMERCIAL market is getting ripped.

QUOTE]

No, sorry, you're wrong.


Main Entry: ci·vil·ian
Pronunciation: \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\
Dunction8 noun
Date: 14th century
1 : a specialist in Roman or modern civil law
2 a : one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b : outsider 1
 
Is the .40 really the finger of god when it comes to stopping fights? No, but neither is our beloved .45. There is very little evidence proving what caliber is most or least effective, shot placement is what will stop fights fastest, every single time. And besides, if the officers get a psychological advantage from carrying the .40 that makes them better warriors, then by all means they need to be sliding a .40 into that holster at the start of their shifts. If they feel that a .40 will give them the extra edge in eliminating a threat then thats what they should have.
 
Back
Top