cast lead for defense

[alwslate]

I think hard cast wc's or swc's are as good as it gets for sd at short
barreled handgun velocities. I have more confidence in my own loads
than I do in most factory ammo. Being crucified in court for using a cast
lead bullet load rather than some high performance hollow point factory
load for defense seems pretty unlikely to me.

 

[kscardsfan]

I knew I had read a case about using reloads for self defense situations. Masaad Ayoob wrote up several incidents about this kind of thing and the various court rulings that came from them. I will post the link to one of them, but I will also include a spoiler alert that they (the jurors) weren't very positive towards reloaders. Link:
Handloads for self-defense: the Daniel Bias case | American Handgunner | Find Articles at BNET
Sorry, Found some more:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_4_51/ai_n11840291/
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_181_30/ai_n26806096/?tag=rbxcra.2.a.11

 

[Tell Sackett]

Well said!

Folks in America need to stand up!!!

I like the way you think, brother! (At least on this issue!)

The sisification of America is intentional. It has been a plan since women left the home and gave up on being what they were designed to be, mom. Then the men stopped being manly, started wearing earrings and carrying "man bags". I think Rush calls it the "chickification" of America, call it what you want. Now we are afraid to stand up for our rights and that is wrong, period.

There has never been ONE case where handloads, no matter how hot or woosified they were, was the issue in a SELF DEFENSE shooting, not one. It has no merit in the case of a justified shooting. There have to be circumstances in the shooting that would make them look deeper. A history with the KKK or whatever. Something that points to a different motive than self defense.

Handloads have only been a factor in one case. A supposed suicide that was proven to be murder. GSR was used to prove that the husband shot the wife because it was impossible for her to do so without leaving GSR on her head. So, if you plan to use your handloads to shoot your wife and have it look like suicide, you could be in trouble. Daniel Bias shot his wife with his handloads then claimed she committed suicide. Read the whole story of what took place that night. It had nothing to do with reloads. She pointed the gun at him earlier, they had a cuss fight, they were a pair of losers and had an argument that got out of hand. THAT is what "tainted" the jury against handloaders. Urban myths, ya gotta love them! But now that an "expert" like Ayoob says its so, its so. Well, not in my book.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it! Good job defending it Blast!

 

[Model 10]

The biggest problem is just cleaning the lead out of the barrel after practice. I'd vote jhp factory when it absolutely has to go bang.

 

[mawguy]

When I first got my CCW several months ago, "self defense" factory ammo in .40 was non-existent. I carried 14 rounds of 180gr FMJ in my Sigma. I felt totally protected. Right now I carry 155gr HP and I feel pretty much the same, but wonder if I had to take a shot through auto glass if it would be effective. Since I don't reload, I only use factory stuff but my point in self defense is that a high speed large caliber bullet will do damage to what it hits, whether it is a hollow point or not. Or did I miss something about physics [impact=velocity times mass].

 

[Snapping Twig]

For SD, make sure your cast bullet has a large metplat. That puts the punch into it.

My reloads are used in my SD firearms.

I like my homebrew best, I practice with it, so I rely on it and I don't worry about getting into trouble for using it. Truth be told, I hope I never have to use it and if I do, the type of round will be the least of my worries.

 

[NiklasP]

Previous posters seem to have forgotten one highly touted lead bullet load, even made by Federal, Remington, Winchester, BuffaloBore, etc. That is the famous "FBI load" developed for use in 38 special J-frames with nominal 2,0 inch barrels. Said to be best available load for such guns.

Even been at least one thread here about handloading to dupicate this load.

I replicated this load for my J-frame by using some soft Pb alloy SWCHP gas checked 158 grain bullets from Rimrock Bullets, reported to be source of bullets BuffaloBore uses for its "FBI load". Also used Speer soft Pb-alloy 158 grain SWHP bullets. Results in quite small grouping load in my 38 SPLs and 357 Mags -- NO LEADING -- with either bullet at velocities from 950 to 1200 fps!! Anyone getting any more that minor leading has a very poor load, for one or more of very well known reasons.

I now carry concealed often because of one too many very distrubing events. My replication of FBI load is in my M60 J-frame. I expect that gun will be drawn only as last resort.

Niklas

 

[cp1969]

momentum = mass x velocity

Neither momentum nor kinetic energy is a reliable predictor of shooting results, as neither takes caliber or bullet shape into account.

 

[texas tom]

Good points made by all. I am leaning towards factory ammo more and more to avoid unnecessary "legal entanglements".

 

[Jellybean]

The Lee 140 gr. mould wouldn't be my first choice, but I wouldn't have a problem if I were carrying your loads using it.

My main criteria for self defense ammo is to not choose something that is so powerful you have to slow down your rate of fire to shoot it effectively.

Edited to add:
I could have saved myself the trouble of posting if I knew you were going to fall for Chicken Littles' logic.

At least no one linked back to the previous multipaged threads on the "legal" issues of using handloads for self defense.

 

[mawguy]

I'm not sure where "impact" fits in physics, but Force=Mass x Acceleration. Acceleration and velocity are not the same thing.

Velocity is a component of kinetic energy, but the formula isn't what you described above. The formula for kinetic energy is instead

[bowing] Thanks for the correction to my physics formula. You rock!!

 

[alwslate]

I don't understand what makes people think that if they are involved in
a justified use of a gun in self defense they will end up in court under
attack from some overzealous prosecutor. How can anyone prove that
your economical lead bullet target or plinking type handloads were in
your gun because factory hollowpoints weren't deadly enough for you?
Just what does anyone think they could actually be charged with on the
basis of their plinking loads vrs factory loads in a sd shooting that is
ruled justified?

 

[kscardsfan]

How many of you want to try this out in a court of law and be the test case for using handloads in an self defense shooting? I don't, that's why I stick to hornady critical defense and speer gold dot in all of my defense handguns. Call me a sissy, wuss, or whatever you want, but I don't want to find out if my handloads were up to spec that afternoon at the bench, or if the prosecuting attorney has a vendetta against gun owners etc.

 

[walnutred]

IF for some reason I end up having to use a firearm to defend myself at home it will be with handloads. I guess if it becomes an issue my law dog will have to explain that never in my wildest dreams did I expect to have to use one of my target pistols for self defense.

Having sat on a jury a few times and watched how lawyers can twist things I think there is an equal possibility that the use of aggressive hollowpoints could be used against a person in a SD shooting. After all, you specifically purchased and practiced with ammo designed to do the most damage as possible. Ammo that for almost a century has been determined to be too inhumane for use by the military. You must have been looking for a chance to use it, right?

I think the prosecutor could make an argument either way if they wanted to. Now my CCW pistol has factory ammo in it mainly because I only shoot a box a month through it and spend my time reloading other calibers.

 

[Tell Sackett]

Why vote to take away our rights, we just give them up willingly!

How many of you want to try this out in a court of law and be the test case for using handloads in an self defense shooting? I don't, that's why I stick to hornady critical defense and speer gold dot in all of my defense handguns. Call me a sissy, wuss, or whatever you want, but I don't want to find out if my handloads were up to spec that afternoon at the bench, or if the prosecuting attorney has a vendetta against gun owners etc.

It wasn't that long ago that everyone, police included, that used a firearm HAD to use handloads. OH, they didn't put them in a cartridge, they pushed them down a muzzle with a rod. In fact, most of the time they had to make the projectile themselves too! As another matter of fact, that was the type of ammunition that the founding fathers defended our country with, against the British, twice! I guess I'd be a test case if need be and help others out 'cause it's a non-issue, then all you other folks that are too scared could benefit too. Of course you wouldn't because ................................

No one has to fire a shot to get us to give up our rights, we do it willingly by just being threatened by a lawsuit.

 

[acl864]

Dang a multi-page thread about whether it's OK to carry handloads for SD. First time that's ever happened.

IMO you're more likely to get struck by lightning than to ever be involved in a justified self defense shooting where any litigation is involved. So the next time it starts thundering... go hide under the bed. Sheesh!

 

[Jellybean]

For the sake of all the folks on this forum that don't fall for every idiotic rumor that flows down the internet sewer...

There are jurisdictions that do specify in their Concealed Carry laws that certain ammunition must be used. Make sure you are aware of any regulations before you decide what you carry in your area.

 

[m1gunner]

Dang a multi-page thread about whether it's OK to carry handloads for SD. First time that's ever happened.

IMO you're more likely to get struck by lightning than to ever be involved in a justified self defense shooting where any litigation is involved. So the next time it starts thundering... go hide under the bed. Sheesh!

I have been struck by lightening 3 times. Where does that leave me?

 

[Tell Sackett]

I have been struck by lightening 3 times. Where does that leave me?

Don't use handloads, your luck is too bad!

'Course, I had an uncle once that claimed to have been struck by lightning more than once, as I remember, I don't think he died in that institution, he came home for a week just before!

 

[Cloudpeak]

I have been struck by lightening 3 times. Where does that leave me?

A large distance from me, I'd hope