Video of Bad stop of CCW holder in Ohio

[feralmerril]

I spent the major years of my life in crowed crime infested southern california. I seen far less searchs along the highways there than I have here in the few years we moved to SW utah. I-15 skirts cedar city. I am on and off the freeway here daily. I cant began to count how many times I have seen shakedowns with two or three police cars have usualy a car with a few young people standing meekly on the side of the road watching the bulls go through all their luggage. I am no cherry, I was a lockheed guard for 35 years and am quite positive I done more car searchs under a different set of rules than any cop in the country. That was because it was high security and when people took the job they signed those rights off to get in the plants. Still, I belive the majority of the population must not know their rights to see so many around here meekly give them up! I really wonder whats going on right here because back in wicked california I didnt see one part as much law leaning on the people?
We have units here that drive wild painted super hot muscle cars. Yesterday I seen a officer had someone pulled over, the officer had the hottest, wildest looking mustang with raceing stripes, almost solid blue with wild white trim. I dont get out much anymore. Is it like this all over? EDIT: Another time a year or so ago I seen near here a huge black SUV with CALIFORNIA plates a officer got out of it, and was shakeing down someone. THIS IS UTAH! Were it me, I wouldnt have stopped! Maybe drive to the sheriff station.

 

[OIF2]

Can't comment on the Mustangs with the cool paint jobs (CHP in CA use Volvos now; the brakes fade badly on the Mustangs at 120 MPH+), but I-15 is a major drug-transporting fwy. Cops use profile and pretext stops (not racial profiling) to interdict the narcotics trafficing between the major western population centers. These have been upheld by the Supreme Ct and are very successful in seizing large amounts of contraband.
Flashy hwy patrol cars get noticed and "show the flag" during regular patrol, causing some (not all) to slow down. At least, that's the theory. Can't comment on the CA SUV doing a car stop in Utah...failure to yield back in Victorville?
Bob

 

[jtpur]

jtpur,
Send your comments to the Canton Repository newspaper so that others may benefit from your wisdom, and maybe VOTE wisely in the next election.

You know that is an outstanding idea and one of which I wish I had thought of myself. I am going to sign off the forum and do exactly that.....thanks for the suggestion and I urge others to do the same.

 

[jtpur]

Just so us layman can follow along... what is the difference between frisking/searching a car or person?

semantics........purely semantics.....

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

CelticSire, thanks for the explanation.

In California they are stopping OC on the sidewalk, disarming, and then search the gun to see if it has any rounds in it. OC is legal, but OC loaded is not. When no rounds are found then they just let the guy go. Is it reasonable suspicion that rounds are in a gun?

 

[jtpur]

CelticSire, thanks for the explanation.

In California they are stopping OC on the sidewalk, disarming, and then search the gun to see if it has any rounds in it. OC is legal, but OC loaded is not. When no rounds are found then they just let the guy go. Is it reasonable suspicion that rounds are in a gun?

Im not a fan of Open carry. That being said if California makes it leagal to do so, I can see no reason for cops to stop people just to see if there are rounds in the gun. I personally do not think it is reasonable or even lends itself to a stop. One reason I do not care for open carry. As I cop I see someone with a gun, (granted usually in his hand) go into a store I think, "Robbery" How many criminals openly carry, walk into a store and rob it? I doubt many.....so if there is no open carry, I think its reasonable to stop somone to see what they are doing. Im not opposed to open carry, I just don't care for it. I think it puts the good guys at disadvantage and takes away the reasonable grounds for being stopped. Put it this way.. You must have a license to drive a car, but cops have to reason to randomly pull you over to check to see if you have one. Some courts have even hinted that "Check points" may be unreasonable while other courts have said they are ok....depends on where you live I guess. So why is it reasonable to presume a guy carrying a gun is doing so in violation of the law.

 

[feralmerril]

There is a lead to the full video in the colt forum lounge, "officer nightstick".

 

[CelticSire]

Is it reasonable suspicion that rounds are in a gun?

Good question. And I wish I had a good answer. Unfortunately I'm going to have to say I don't know, because a lot depends on California case law as it relates to the OC law there and how various city ordinances are written under the color of that law.

 

[The Big D]

Okay, what's the problem with a LEO in a vehicle bearing CA plates making a stop in Utah...or anywhere else?

It's not the vehicle that has jurisdiction, 'tis the LEO.

I shall declare herein that I have, in fact, undertaken significant anti-crime actions whilst driving a vehicle not bearing tags for the state in which the actions took place. Many times.



Be safe.

 

[feralmerril]

Big D, what % of the population wouldnt think it a little odd to have a unmarked black escalade with blacked out windows and out of state plates try to pull them over? I think it was a escalade, but might have been the chev equivlent. As a local I had seen it around town a few times but figuerd it was for undercover or something. But I was surprised to see a uniformed officer had someone pulled over with it on the freeway that day. I never seen that in my lifetime before. Do I need to get out more?
What about the red light bandit in california many years ago, carl chessman, wasnt it? Back in 1960 my friend and boss when I worked at yosemite was on his days off near fresno, got pulled over by a unmarked that had a red spoylight. Boss didnt know what he had done, it was night. The guy walked up in civie`s, boss asked him what authority he had. Another car was approaching, the guy kind of stalled waiting for it to pass, then said I got my authority right here and pulled his coat back to show a gun. Boss scratched out, it was a rual road, they raced for quite aways, as boss came into a small town the guy gave up the chase. As I recall there were similar incidents, belive it was a copycat case going as it wasnt long after chessman the redlight bandit case that robbed raped and killed a number of people. Cant belive a guy could get dinged bad now days for not stopping under similar circumstances if he wasnt wanted. Didnt you get static for doing it? You must have done it picking up wanted felons or something, otherwise I dont see how you didnt get dinged doing it on traffic stops. Am I right or wrong? Would YOU stop for a out of state unmarked at night with out of state plates, or how would you feel about it if your wife was traveling alone at night and a out of state car tried to pull her over and she phoned you for advice? Are you really going to tell me you would advise her to pull over? I dont think so!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caryl_Chessman

 

[The Big D]

Oh, I don't think it should be a routine practice and wholly agree with your concerns, feralmerril. In fact, we were discouraged from making stops...traffic or otherwise...whilst in umarked vehicles and/or in mufti. But there were occasions when they were made...and it was neccessary that they were made.

In one rather unusual incident I stopped two persons carrying rifles. At the time I was driving a Lexus SC400 and wearing business attire. No, the tags weren't for the state in which the action transpired.

Again, I surely don't suggest such as was described by feralmerril should be routine...but may be absolutely required on occasion.

Be safe.

 

[walnutred]

Maybe that is why some States do not allow unmarked cars to make stops.

 

[The Big D]

I am not aware of any jurisdiction(s) wherein the use of unmarked vehicles is prohibited under all circumstances.

As stated, however, many organizations have internal policies that govern the use of unmarked vehicles. Most do allow stops under emergency or exigent circumstances.

Be safe.

Maybe that is why some States do not allow unmarked cars to make stops.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Around here at night... I don't even know how you could tell if it's a cop pulling you over. There are very few lit streets, a lot of the police cars around here don't have light bars on the roof, nor do they have a front plate (no cars do in TN) but even if it there was a front plate I couldn't see it at night in the rear view mirror.

 

[cmort666]

There's a SECOND dashcam video from this same cop. While there's some legal justification for some of the actions in the stop, there's the same language and demeanor, and the same bizarro police "procedure". He seems to talk so much about shooting people and "going to sleep", maybe he has narcolepsy...

It seems that Harless treats EVERYBODY this way.

See the related threads on the Ohioans for Concealed Carry Forums.

 

[Moonman]

The Canton Repository is continuing to dig into this officers background. He seems to have some serious PROFESSIONAL issues.

 

[feralmerril]

Sounds like my boyhood hero from al capps lil abner, fearless fosdick!
fearless fosdick - Bing Images

 

[walnutred]

The Canton Repository is continuing to dig into this officers background. He seems to have some serious PROFESSIONAL issues.

The Canton Suppository, as my friends from Canton call it, should be looking into why these actions were sanctioned for so long buy the Canton PD and Canton city government.

 

[The Big D]

I am not a psychiatrist, obviously, but the officer seems to have some inordinate fear of firearms. Note, too, that at times he speaks softly and "professionally" while at other times (most of the time, actually) he acts like a raving lunatic.

As an aside, for non-LEO's may I offer another observation? In this latest incident the story makes mention of the fact NO ONE made a complaint regarding the conduct. That is very often the case; most bad guys accept the consequences of their bad decisions. LEO's herein will likely agree with this observation...maybe.

Be safe.

 

[Moonman]

Walnutred makes a very valid point. The sanction by everyone is potentially disturbing, but how many complaints were filed against this officer?
The Football Hall Of Fame festivities have now started in Canton and may or may not overshadow this issue for the next week and a half.