Video of Bad stop of CCW holder in Ohio

[The Big D]

Oh, I don't think it should be a routine practice and wholly agree with your concerns, feralmerril. In fact, we were discouraged from making stops...traffic or otherwise...whilst in umarked vehicles and/or in mufti. But there were occasions when they were made...and it was neccessary that they were made.

In one rather unusual incident I stopped two persons carrying rifles. At the time I was driving a Lexus SC400 and wearing business attire. No, the tags weren't for the state in which the action transpired.

Again, I surely don't suggest such as was described by feralmerril should be routine...but may be absolutely required on occasion.

Be safe.

 

[walnutred]

Maybe that is why some States do not allow unmarked cars to make stops.

 

[The Big D]

I am not aware of any jurisdiction(s) wherein the use of unmarked vehicles is prohibited under all circumstances.

As stated, however, many organizations have internal policies that govern the use of unmarked vehicles. Most do allow stops under emergency or exigent circumstances.

Be safe.

Maybe that is why some States do not allow unmarked cars to make stops.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Around here at night... I don't even know how you could tell if it's a cop pulling you over. There are very few lit streets, a lot of the police cars around here don't have light bars on the roof, nor do they have a front plate (no cars do in TN) but even if it there was a front plate I couldn't see it at night in the rear view mirror.

 

[cmort666]

There's a SECOND dashcam video from this same cop. While there's some legal justification for some of the actions in the stop, there's the same language and demeanor, and the same bizarro police "procedure". He seems to talk so much about shooting people and "going to sleep", maybe he has narcolepsy...

It seems that Harless treats EVERYBODY this way.

See the related threads on the Ohioans for Concealed Carry Forums.

 

[Moonman]

The Canton Repository is continuing to dig into this officers background. He seems to have some serious PROFESSIONAL issues.

 

[feralmerril]

Sounds like my boyhood hero from al capps lil abner, fearless fosdick!
fearless fosdick - Bing Images

 

[walnutred]

The Canton Repository is continuing to dig into this officers background. He seems to have some serious PROFESSIONAL issues.

The Canton Suppository, as my friends from Canton call it, should be looking into why these actions were sanctioned for so long buy the Canton PD and Canton city government.

 

[The Big D]

I am not a psychiatrist, obviously, but the officer seems to have some inordinate fear of firearms. Note, too, that at times he speaks softly and "professionally" while at other times (most of the time, actually) he acts like a raving lunatic.

As an aside, for non-LEO's may I offer another observation? In this latest incident the story makes mention of the fact NO ONE made a complaint regarding the conduct. That is very often the case; most bad guys accept the consequences of their bad decisions. LEO's herein will likely agree with this observation...maybe.

Be safe.

 

[Moonman]

Walnutred makes a very valid point. The sanction by everyone is potentially disturbing, but how many complaints were filed against this officer?
The Football Hall Of Fame festivities have now started in Canton and may or may not overshadow this issue for the next week and a half.

 

[cmort666]

The sanction by everyone is potentially disturbing, but how many complaints were filed against this officer?

Equally importantly, how many of those complaints were made about incidents that happened when his dashcam was [against policy] turned off, or with the vehicle intentionally pointed in a direction calculated to ELIMINATE a view of the action?

 

[feralmerril]

One more thing we all know about but hardly no one will talk about is the so called code of silence. Maybe some of us would try to handle it queitly on the side to straighen up our partner, but seldom go to the captain with it. No, I was never a LEO, but was a guard on a huge department for 35 years and chewed many butts as for most of those years I was the senior on the job.
How long was this guy on the job? Hard to belive a tougher more senior officer hadnt straighened him out by then!

EDITED: Wow! Just noticed it`s my 5,000 th post. I need to get a life!

 

[cmort666]

One more thing we all know about but hardly no one will talk about is the so called code of silence. Maybe some of us would try to handle it queitly on the side to straighen up our partner, but seldom go to the captain with it. No, I was never a LEO, but was a guard on a huge department for 35 years and chewed many butts as for most of those years I was the senior on the job.
How long was this guy on the job? Hard to belive a tougher more senior officer hadnt straighened him out by then!

I believe he's been a cop since 2000 or 2001.

His partner is obviously of no more value as a moral compass than a ventriloquist's dummy.

It seems that the partner is completely "down with" whatever Harless does. Neither of these incidents will likely get HIM criminally charged, nor indeed fired, but there are rumors of even MORE damaging dashcam videos waiting to be released.

If the victim's attorney is smart, he'll just dribble them out to the media, one by one until the cop, his partner, the chief and the city have absolutely no credibility at all. If the shortbus prosecutor actually goes to trial on this one, it's going to be a bloodbath when the cop gets on the stand. If MY lawyer got the cop on the stand, it'd look like something out of "Hellraiser".

 

[feralmerril]

Remember that case in chicago about two years ago where a old senior detective had been torturing suspects, got found out and I belive they sprung most of the guys that ever confessed to a crime under his investigations? Even his squad under him was all in on it and either participated in the torturing or knew about it!
Many years ago I worked with the son of a old chicago detective, (probley in the late 30s, 40s, 50s era). I remember one story he repeated of one tatic, where the detective would gently fondal the suspects cajones and ask him questions etc.

 

[cmort666]

Remember that case in chicago about two years ago where a old senior detective had been torturing suspects, got found out and I belive they sprung most of the guys that ever confessed to a crime under his investigations? Even his squad under him was all in on it and either participated in the torturing or knew about it!

He was convicted of perjury during the investigation (he and others had managed to drag things out long enough to run the statute of limitations for the actual torture). I believe he's doing Federal time now.

There should probably be a lesson there for Harless and his partner. If someone simply refuses to LET you stonewall, you'll ALWAYS be looking over your shoulder. I expect that Harless knows this very well.

If you can't get him for the crimes, get him for the coverup.

 

[cmort666]

Remember that case in chicago about two years ago where a old senior detective had been torturing suspects, got found out and I belive they sprung most of the guys that ever confessed to a crime under his investigations?

Oh, and by the way, just as in the case of Harless, I've seen some cops defend Jon Burge's torture conspiracy. They didn't deny that it happened. They said that it was a GOOD thing. In this they're very little different from the Canton City Council President, or Harless's other defenders.

 

[sheriffoconee]

semantics........purely semantics.....

Sorry, but I disagree.....
A frisk is a LIMITED pat down or cursory examination for the express purpose of finding weapons....a FRISK is a "pat down" which can discover contraband, but that is NOT the primary purpose of it. In Terry V Ohio, Detective McFadden, my hero, FRISKED Terry and discovered a firearm after watching Terry and his friends casing an armed robbery location.

A SEARCH is a search.....a search is an intrusion which should normally require a warrant, but fits into one of the legally accepted exceptions......such as incidental to a LAWFUL arrest, consent, plain view, etc.....

A FRISK is a very limited search, but a SEARCH is much more than a frisk......

OOOPS, I missed celticsire's excellent discussion on this topic on PAGE 14.......

 

[bushmaster1313]

In Terry V Ohio, Detective McFadden, my hero, FRISKED Terry and discovered a firearm after watching Terry and his friends casing an armed robbery location.

From Wikipedia:

On October 31, 1963, while on a downtown beat which he had been patrolling for many years, Cleveland Police Department detective Martin McFadden, aged 62,[1] saw two men, John W. Terry and Richard Chilton, standing on a street corner at 1276 Euclid Avenue and acting in a way the officer thought suspicious. Detective McFadden, who was well-known on the Cleveland police force for his skill in apprehending pickpockets,[2] observed the two proceed alternately back and forth along an identical route, pausing to stare in the same store window. Each completion of the route was followed by a conference between the two on a corner. The two men repeated this ritual alternately between five and six times apiece—in all, roughly a dozen trips. After one of these trips, they were joined by a third man (Katz) who left swiftly after a brief conversation. Suspecting the two men of "casing a job, a stick-up", detective McFadden followed them and saw them rejoin the third man a couple of blocks away in front of a store.

The plainclothes officer approached the three, identified himself as a policeman, and asked their names. The men "mumbled something", whereupon McFadden spun Terry around, patted down his outside clothing, and felt a pistol in his overcoat pocket. He reached inside the overcoat pocket, but was unable to remove the gun. The officer ordered the three into the store. He removed Terry's overcoat, took out a revolver, and ordered the three to face the wall with their hands raised. He patted down the outer clothing of Chilton and Katz and seized a revolver from Chilton's outside overcoat pocket. He did not put his hands under the outer garments of Katz (since he discovered nothing in his pat-down which might have been a weapon), or under Terry's or Chilton's outer garments until he felt the guns. The three were taken to the police station. Terry and Chilton were subsequently charged with carrying concealed weapons.

Did McFadden have his gun out when he spun Terry around?

 

[jtpur]

Sorry, but I disagree.....
A frisk is a LIMITED pat down or cursory examination for the express purpose of finding weapons....a FRISK is a "pat down" which can discover contraband, but that is NOT the primary purpose of it. In Terry V Ohio, Detective McFadden, my hero, FRISKED Terry and discovered a firearm after watching Terry and his friends casing an armed robbery location.

A SEARCH is a search.....a search is an intrusion which should normally require a warrant, but fits into one of the legally accepted exceptions......such as incidental to a LAWFUL arrest, consent, plain view, etc.....

A FRISK is a very limited search, but a SEARCH is much more than a frisk......

OOOPS, I missed celticsire's excellent discussion on this topic on PAGE 14.......

Sheriff, we are in agreement, we had been having a long discussion....I was being a bit of a wise guy, it did not dawn on me that someone may have just read my response without reading the previous discussion.....I have to watch those things.....I forget that not everyone starts from post one and reads to the last page....well corrected thank you.

 

[sheriffoconee]

From Wikipedia:



Did McFadden have his gun out when he spun Terry around?

I have never heard that he did....and here we are, some 50 years later, and we call it a Terry stop.....it should be called a MCFADDEN stop, I don't know why we gave homage to a stick up man when Martin McFadden did an excellent bit of police work
Detective Martin J. McFadden (#65-18) - Ohio Historical Markers on Waymarking.com