DILLON---550 OR 650

[williamlayton]

HUMMMMM on the AP---might have to consider this since I am used to the red.
I like the 650 because it does auto index and you can go take a whizz and not get lost.
I like the 550 because the caliber change is easier.
These are thoughts I have gathered from you boys.
I do not suffer from-----------what were we talking about------I just don't LIKE to pay as much attention for as long as you have to when doing whatever it was that we were talking about.


I seem to recall that you can use the LNL dies and system on the Dillon----is that a correct thought?
Blessings

 

[m657]

Re: Caliber change??

I'm trying to recall the difference between caliber change on the 550vs 650. IIRC (always brings up another issue) there really isn't much difference.

Primer size changes, maybe a little longer on the 650, but I get to tear down the press, change the punch, clean/lube and reinstall new caliber stuff...takes maybe 15 minutes.

I've come to reload in batches, such that I only change primer sizes a few times a year.

Caliber changes takes what....maybe 5 minutes to change the shell plate, brass locator pins, and new station 1 stuff. Plus the tool head with already attached dies.

Don't see the extra time in the caliber change. And I'm never in a hurry during reloading. What I like is to have a smooth operation with no mistakes.

This last run I loaded up nearly 500 41 mag brass. Had 2 mashed primers, no big deal.
1 primer pin broken, due to a 22 LR case being overlooked in the 41 mag case.

Any thought of 'lost time changing calibers' is amply rewarded by a very smooth process of turning out high quality reloads.

The 'jump' in the shell plate also has another cure I ran across about 5-6 years ago....some body marketed a little flat needle bearing that fits between 2 flat washers under the shell plate pin....makes the revolutions very smooth indeed, took away about 80% of the 'jerky spill'.....although I may tend to my plate ball bearing spring some day.

Just as with multiple calibers and mfgs of firearms, it's a wonderful wide market to choose from out there for reloading gear.

 

[fredj338]

Re: Caliber change??

I'm trying to recall the difference between caliber change on the 550vs 650. IIRC (always brings up another issue) there really isn't much difference.

Primer size changes, maybe a little longer on the 650, but I get to tear down the press, change the punch, clean/lube and reinstall new caliber stuff...takes maybe 15 minutes.

I've come to reload in batches, such that I only change primer sizes a few times a year.

Caliber changes takes what....maybe 5 minutes to change the shell plate, brass locator pins, and new station 1 stuff. Plus the tool head with already attached dies.

Don't see the extra time in the caliber change. And I'm never in a hurry during reloading. What I like is to have a smooth operation with no mistakes.

This last run I loaded up nearly 500 41 mag brass. Had 2 mashed primers, no big deal.
1 primer pin broken, due to a 22 LR case being overlooked in the 41 mag case.

Any thought of 'lost time changing calibers' is amply rewarded by a very smooth process of turning out high quality reloads.

The 'jump' in the shell plate also has another cure I ran across about 5-6 years ago....some body marketed a little flat needle bearing that fits between 2 flat washers under the shell plate pin....makes the revolutions very smooth indeed, took away about 80% of the 'jerky spill'.....although I may tend to my plate ball bearing spring some day.

Just as with multiple calibers and mfgs of firearms, it's a wonderful wide market to choose from out there for reloading gear.

The extra time & setup in caliber change from the 550 to 650 is in the case feeder & primer assem, everything else is the same. If you want a simple, fast progressive, the 550 is tough to beat. If you want a high end production machine for one or two calibers, then the 650 w/ case feeder is hard to beat. If you swap calibers often, going from 9mm to 45acp, to 40, to 45colt, etc. Then a 550 is just simpler to do, no case feeder to mess w/ & primer size change is simple.
FWIW, I never walk away form either machine & leave cases in stations, that is how mistakes are made, auto indexing or not. In that context, the 550 is actually easier to monitor because it is manual indexing. It's a tough thing for those who have never used one to wrap their heads around. Neither system is full proof & neither is more safe. The nut pulling the handle is always the determining factor.

 

[williamlayton]

I goofed. I meant primer change-----not caliber.
That's my story and i'm stickin to it.
We will see.
I got until Feb. to make a final decision--$'s.
Blessings

 

[armsmaster270]

I in 40 some years I have had the Rock Chucker, Lee Progressive and the RL550B The 550 beats them all for speed but the capability to take it at your own pace. I do not miss the case and bullet feeders. I like to do it myself. I do 38/357, 40, 44/44Mag, 45Auto, 223, 308, 30-06, 303 and 30-30.

 

[williamlayton]

I like the replies---counsel/opinions are always desirable.
Let's see where we are.
The 550 is not auto indexing----something that I find highly desireable in my thinking.
650 is a bit more complicated/time consuming to change calibers. I liked the thought about a shell casing being left in the caliber se-up.
The 650, while not me proof is faster and is more difficult to produce bad ammo.
The case feeder seems to be a issue with some but I am not clear as to how or why.
The primer charger seems to be an issue when it needs to be changed--but I am not sure why.
Have I corrrectly identified some of the highlights.
I wish these issues could be addressed in more detail.
Blessings

 

[Moonman]

How many calibers do you intend to reload? You have a statement about using the LNL dies and SYSTEM on the Dillon. Hornady dies can be used but the Quick Change Bushing System CANNOT, as the Master Bushing that holds the Quick Change bushings that twist in and out is a 1 1/4"-12 thread size. The standard die size is 7/8"-14. There is no room for a larger thread in the Dillon tool head for it to be tapped out and the Hornady Conversion bushing be installed. The Hornady Bushing conversion can be installed on most SINGLE STAGE presses through.

There is a way to make the WORKING HEIGHTS EQUAL between the LNL CLASSIC single stage and the LNL AP PROGRESSIVE, a Spacer Bushing has to be made and placed under the Quick Change bushing that's installed in the single stage to raise it up. This makes the working heights of the two presses EQUAL and you could move a Die From the Progressive to the Single Stage without any adjustment to the die. I think after the measurements were calculated my spacer had to be made on a lathe and was .156 thick.

Good Luck with your choices.

 

[williamlayton]

As it stands now 38/38super/9x23/45acp/357mag/41mag.
I may get the dies and load the 327 single stage on the LNL.
I have just about put a AP on the back burner.
I would still like some details on the primer charger and case feeder complaints/concerns.
Blessings

 

[Beans]

I also started with a single stage press in 1970 and still have it. I acquired a Star machine and then a Phillips progressive loader, both long gone.

My first Dillon was a 450 which was converted to a 550 then upgraded to a 550b


On to the Dillon. Sitting on my reloading bench right now is two 650's one 550b, my original RCBS single stage and a Lyman Spar "T" each of them has its own uses. These machines were aquired over 40 years, about 10 years apart between each one of the Dillons

I have recommended the 550b to several people who have just started reloading and they are happy with it. They used both my 650 and 550 before deciding

Examples: I need several hundred 45 LC rounds for a practice session and a match I fire up the 650 that is set up for the .45 LC.

I need several hundred rounds for my .40 S&W IDPA pistol I fire up the other 650. No need to change out the Primer Mech because of the difference in primer size.

I think changing out the primer mech in the 650 is a PITA compared to changing out the primer mech in the 550b.

I have used the 550b as a upscale single stage press without the need to change the dies for ever operation.

I just leave the powder hopper empty and add/measure the powder I am using on a digital scale, reinsert the case and continue. I can't do this as easy in the 650.

For example 20 rds of .45 ACP with powder #1. 20 rds of .45 ACP with powder #2 Etc. Off to the range I go.

Precision rifle rounds are loaded on the single stage press. playing/blasting rifle ammo is loaded on the 550B.

The Spar-T is used to load cast rifle bullets as I use a "M" die to bell the case mouth. The dies are set and they never have to be removed to use the next die. Just rotate the head.

I would try both the 650 and the 550b and decide which one fits your reloading style. Both are good machines

 

[Beans]

I like the replies---counsel/opinions are always desirable.
Let's see where we are.
The 650, while not me proof is faster and is more difficult to produce bad ammo.
The case feeder seems to be a issue with some but I am not clear as to how or why.
The primer charger seems to be an issue when it needs to be changed--but I am not sure why.
Have I corrrectly identified some of the highlights.
I wish these issues could be addressed in more detail.
Blessings

"The 650, while not me proof is faster and is more difficult to produce bad ammo."

IMHO not true, Pay attention and both machines can produce good ammo, don't pay attention and both machines can/will produce out of spec ammo. Yes the 650 is faster. for me it is about 30-40% faster YMMV




You need to see someone change the priming system on both systems to fully understand the difference.

The case feeder= If you happen to have a out of round case it will hang up in the case feed mech but not the hopper. I was showing a friend of mine the difference between the 550b without the case feeder and the 650 with the case feeder. I had several out of round cases that hung up the mech and had to be cleared. I also had a 10mm case that was mixed in with the .40 S&W cases and because of the difference in case length it also hung up the case feeder.

As I shoot several hundred rds a month of the .40 S&W I just deal with the out of spec cases stopping the reloading process as opposed to sorting out each case to determine if it will feed. In the long run it just take less time then to inspect each case. I am loading competition (light) loads and have yet had to deal with a split case.

I have dealt with split cases on heavier loads so those cases are individually inspected

 

[williamlayton]

I am in agreement with paying attention.
The paying attention I am alluding too is with each individual action--if I am loading a batch of 500.
The single stage Hornady was fun for awhile--and it is still fun if I am playing with a different powder or load. I don't do that much anymore.
It takes forever to load 500 rounds with the Hornady and I have to pay attention to each pull.
I am not trying to get away from safety--in fact I am thinking safety with the 650 over the manual indexing 550. the 550 may be nearly as fast--but I am also concerned with ME making a mistake.
The case feeder and caliber changes opinions have alleved most of the concerns--which were not fears just worth the questioning to see if I was thinking clearly.
I really do appreciate the time and thought put into the replies.
I do also understand that each of us has a different personality and this effects/affects our likes. dislikes, fears, and concerns.
If we all fell in love with the same woman it would be a heck of a fight.
Blessings
Bill Close

 

[fredj338]

THe issue w/ the case feeder is the same for any moving part, it's another thing to jamb or break. The Dillon is pretty reliable, but as noted, the occasional odd case gets in or a case gets flipped upside down, jamb. When changing calibers, you have to cahnge all the parts for the case feeder too for most calibers. Like changing form small to large primers, just more to do, more complicated, but not daunting.
If you shoot a lot of one or two calibers, then a 650 w/ case feeder is a great way to go. If you load & shoot a bunch of diff stuff, then a 550 w/o case feeder may be a better bet. Is it easier to make a mistake on a 550, maybe, but if you pay attention, no. I have managed well over 150K rds in 20yr on the 550, no issues. You won't be unhappy w/ either. If yo umust have a case feeder, then the 650 is the way to go. If you load 500rds of this or that each week, then a 550 is just easier to work with changing back & forth. Either one is giving you 450rds+/hr.

 

[Skip Sackett]

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THe issue w/ the case feeder is the same for any moving part, it's another thing to jamb or break. The Dillon is pretty reliable, but as noted, the occasional odd case gets in or a case gets flipped upside down, jamb. When changing calibers, you have to cahnge all the parts for the case feeder too for most calibers. Like changing form small to large primers, just more to do, more complicated, but not daunting.
If you shoot a lot of one or two calibers, then a 650 w/ case feeder is a great way to go. If you load & shoot a bunch of diff stuff, then a 550 w/o case feeder may be a better bet. Is it easier to make a mistake on a 550, maybe, but if you pay attention, no. I have managed well over 150K rds in 20yr on the 550, no issues. You won't be unhappy w/ either. If yo umust have a case feeder, then the 650 is the way to go. If you load 500rds of this or that each week, then a 550 is just easier to work with changing back & forth. Either one is giving you 450rds+/hr.

Well, they say confession is good for the soul! At least you have now publicly acknowledged that there MIGHT be a chance that someone COULD find it easier to make a mistake on the non-autoindexing RL550B over the XL650!


I guess we will take what we can get! You will come around. Truth has a way of making you free!

I don't understand your logic between a RL550 and XL650, but I do know another thing that makes the XL650 shine, the 5th station. That powder check die is a really good idea when making large batches of one caliber, that is for sure. It gives you another level of checking, one that is mechanical, it isn't going to "forget" to look into a case as we are prone to do from time to time, it will check every one.

Personally, the only problems that I have had with the case feeder on either of my XL650s has been caused by me. When you tumble mixed cases, 45ACP and 45Colt for instance, and happen to leave a 45Colt in the mix, it will jamb the thing up and you have to clean it out. Unhandy but, not the machine's fault.

At any rate, we all have opinions. Yours is well thought out, and as valid as the next guy's Fred. It certainly works for you, and that is a good thing.



I am in automation for a living and have been for over 35 years and here is what I have found: repetitive tasks are best relegated to a machine. Even the ones that should you make a mistake could cause a bunch of damage. People are always going to be human, humans make mistakes.

 

[fredj338]

I am in automation for a living and have been for over 35 years and here is what I have found: repetitive tasks are best relegated to a machine. Even the ones that should you make a mistake could cause a bunch of damage. People are always going to be human, humans make mistakes.

All true SC. While I enjoy my 650, there are no flys on the 550 & I recommend it for it's simplicity. I nail gun is a great tool, but not needed for every task & often a PITA to setup to drive a couple nails. Another? I like food porcessors, but a good sharp knife is far easier to use but does require more attention to not cut yourself. I look at the 550 sort of like that. For the guy that doesn't want to spend 2hrs loading 150rds for his Sat match, it easily beats a single stage or turret by 100%+. I have to be attentive driving my car, mowing my law, dealing w/ kitchen utensiles & yes, even shooting. So why should I not be as attentive when reloading? I have had my 650 for a year now, love it, but no issue going to the 550 for the other 8 calibers I load on it.

 

[williamlayton]

Smith Crazy
You put into words all that I havebeen thinking but could not say as well as you did.
The older I get, those repetitive motions are what I am afraid of.
I can set one up, no problem.
Those repetitive motions are what drove me from the LNL.
Thanks &
Blessings

 

[Skip Sackett]

All true SC. While I enjoy my 650, there are no flys on the 550 & I recommend it for it's simplicity. I nail gun is a great tool, but not needed for every task & often a PITA to setup to drive a couple nails. Another? I like food porcessors, but a good sharp knife is far easier to use but does require more attention to not cut yourself. I look at the 550 sort of like that. For the guy that doesn't want to spend 2hrs loading 150rds for his Sat match, it easily beats a single stage or turret by 100%+. I have to be attentive driving my car, mowing my law, dealing w/ kitchen utensiles & yes, even shooting. So why should I not be as attentive when reloading? I have had my 650 for a year now, love it, but no issue going to the 550 for the other 8 calibers I load on it.

The answer to it all..................................Buy enough XL650s to never have to setup but once! I have two...........so can you.............or a dozen or.....................

William, case in point: I just came up from about 25 minutes in the man cave. One XL650 is already setup for 45ACP and in that amount of time, filling primer tubes and all, I cranked out 200 rounds of premium ammo!

Here are some pictures of the results of them being shot from this:

The new Red Dot scope has no magnification and the dot is 5 MOA! (5" @ 100 yards, it covered most of the target!)

This was shot at that distance! I was pleased.