venomballistics
Member
which is something to think about ... if our actions can be interpreted as brandishing a weapon ... we become a legit target. Do not for a moment underestimate a perps capacity for creative interpretation
Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense?
- Thread starter 99mikegt
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which is something to think about ... if our actions can be interpreted as brandishing a weapon ... we become a legit target. Do not for a moment underestimate a perps capacity for creative interpretation
Double-O-Dave
US Veteran
Yes, on a few occasions, and I was awfully glad to be armed. In one, a car full of "yutes" accosted my girl friend and myself while we were on an evening walk around the block. At the time, Texas did not have a CHL provision except for "bona-fide travelers". The police had a wide degree of latitude in interpreting whether a traveler was "bona-fide" or not. When they drove their car across our pathway, I told the girl friend to run and hide in the tree line, and then I drew my Colt Government Model on them and told them to "halt". I'm sure I could have gotten a "brandishing" charge quite easily, and that probably would have been my least serious charge. As it was, I think the little dears got the point and the threat was neutralized.
On another occasion, I had a home invader late one night. Long story that I won't bore ya'll with, but it turned out to be a bad joke that could have resulted in a fatality. When he broke through my front door, I was bringing the GM up to bear, and had an excellent front sight hold on his chest and was already starting to mash the creep out of the trigger. Thank God for CQB training in the Army as I was able to issue good commands that he followed to the letter. My confidence increased exponentially after I had him in a leaning rest against the front door with his back to me and I told him that I was calling the police, and that if he moved, I was going to kill him. His response was for me to go ahead and call the police and to ask them to "please hurry".
For me, a .45ACP semi-auto or revolver is an excellent tool for potentially bad social situations.
Best of luck,
Dave
On another occasion, I had a home invader late one night. Long story that I won't bore ya'll with, but it turned out to be a bad joke that could have resulted in a fatality. When he broke through my front door, I was bringing the GM up to bear, and had an excellent front sight hold on his chest and was already starting to mash the creep out of the trigger. Thank God for CQB training in the Army as I was able to issue good commands that he followed to the letter. My confidence increased exponentially after I had him in a leaning rest against the front door with his back to me and I told him that I was calling the police, and that if he moved, I was going to kill him. His response was for me to go ahead and call the police and to ask them to "please hurry".
For me, a .45ACP semi-auto or revolver is an excellent tool for potentially bad social situations.
Best of luck,
Dave
Texas Solo
Member
Once, in 4 years of carrying. The wife and I were walking a new puppy around the block, when a huge dog jumped it's fence and came straight for our little Molly. My wife scooped up Molly at the same time I drew my weapon. I had pressure on the trigger when the attacking dog stopped, followed by it's owner yelling for it to stop. The owner jumped the fence to retrieve his dog while I was still holding my pistol on it.
In Texas, I was perfectly legal to draw.
In Texas, I was perfectly legal to draw.
BearBio
Member
OK, now that I think I understand the question, my criteria for drawing my weapon are:
1) I will not be tied up.
2) people start getting shot (Mine or others)
3) I am attacked with a weapon or am sure (in my mind) that I will be.
1) I will not be tied up.
2) people start getting shot (Mine or others)
3) I am attacked with a weapon or am sure (in my mind) that I will be.
papajohn428
Member
Four times, three as a civilian. The one on duty involved a couple of thieves who made it clear that I was going to be run over if I didn't get out of their way to the exit. I pointed the 38 at the driver's nose as he approached, and he changed his direction. No shots fired. (The local cops told me I should have shot him anyway.)
The other three involved two attempted robberies and an attempted carjacking. The robbers were following me on foot and I outflanked them, when they re-acquired me I was pointing a gun at their head from a couple yards away. Both were disarmed (one had a BB gun, the other had an empty RG 38) and were sent packing, no shots fired again.
The attempted carjacking involved two miscreants, one with a large stainless steel butter knife. As he leaned closer and reached for the (locked) doorhandle, my .380 clunked into his forehead. Things got very polite, the knife was quickly tossed away, and I left. No shots fired. The other guy apparently vanished into thin air when the gun came into play, I never did figure out where he went.
The first incident occurred at 3AM, the attempted robberies between 7 and 9AM, and the attempted carjacking at 4pm on a beautiful fall afternoon in a busy area four blocks from home.
There is no peace in Condition White!
The other three involved two attempted robberies and an attempted carjacking. The robbers were following me on foot and I outflanked them, when they re-acquired me I was pointing a gun at their head from a couple yards away. Both were disarmed (one had a BB gun, the other had an empty RG 38) and were sent packing, no shots fired again.
The attempted carjacking involved two miscreants, one with a large stainless steel butter knife. As he leaned closer and reached for the (locked) doorhandle, my .380 clunked into his forehead. Things got very polite, the knife was quickly tossed away, and I left. No shots fired. The other guy apparently vanished into thin air when the gun came into play, I never did figure out where he went.
The first incident occurred at 3AM, the attempted robberies between 7 and 9AM, and the attempted carjacking at 4pm on a beautiful fall afternoon in a busy area four blocks from home.
There is no peace in Condition White!
Did'nt actually draw it on someone but once as i was driving into the parking lot of a local convienience store i noticed a man had a woman pinned against the hood of a car and had her in a kind of bearhug holding her very tightly and she was very obviously crying and trying to elude his grasp. I thought to myself, "domestic dispute",couple fighting, and just sat in my truck for minute to see how it was going to play out. After a couple of minutes of her trying to get away, there was no punches thrown by the way, her cries for help got to me. I Got out of my truck and at the same time made sure he saw me putting my model 66 in my belt from under the driver seat where i keep it. I approached him telling him to calm down and let her go. I got to within 10 feet of them all the while repeating to him to let her go. She started screaming, help me he's going to kill me.. But he had no weapon of any kind visible. So i told him i was going into the store to call the PD and he best be off. When i headed through the front door, all the while keeping a close eye on him, he jumped into his car parked close by and took off like a bat out of hell.
Consider this..... If you point a gun at someone, they have the legal right to kill you. What would you do if someone pointed a gun at you?
Forget the law, use common sense. You'd better be damn sure you or someone's life is in danger before you draw.
Suppose the person you think is following you and your wife in a parking garage is a LEO walking to his car or heck even a drug dealer walking by. Either way drawing on them if going to have very grave consequences. Brandishing charges are the least of your worries.
Forget the law, use common sense. You'd better be damn sure you or someone's life is in danger before you draw.
Suppose the person you think is following you and your wife in a parking garage is a LEO walking to his car or heck even a drug dealer walking by. Either way drawing on them if going to have very grave consequences. Brandishing charges are the least of your worries.
Texas Solo
Member
In Texas, you must be able to articulate that you were in fear of your life or grave bodily injury. And from the way I understand it, you're only justified in drawing your weapon if your justified to use it. The thing is that what one person considers to be justified, the other (LEO) may not. Then there's the "disparity of force" clause. If there's 3 of you and one of me, or if you're a small woman going up against a large man, you're justified.
almost. i was putting gas in the car, wife and daughter in the car. i was the only car filling up and at the pump farthest away from the building. it was cold out, i was wearing my lined leather jacket and had my .380 in a pocket holser in the inside jacket pocket. a cadilac pulled in and parked near the gas station building entrance. 4 males exited the car and started walking towards me, they split into 2 groups and were coming towards me from 2 different angles. my wife tapped her window to let me know she thought that was suspicous. i reached my hand into my coat and placed my hand in the pocket with my gun. i never removed the gun from my pocket. i just stood there with my right hand in my coat pocket and my left hand was placing the fuel nozzle back on the pump as i was trying to get away from there asap. the group seemed to notice my hand in my coat as they abruptly stopped and went back to their car. i quickly got in my car and left the area making sure i wasnt being followed. my wife said that was realy odd the way the started approaching us and the way they turned back. afterwards, i was thinking maybe they just wanted directions, but the way they approached and the way they were dressed (i wont elaborate) was not normal behavior.
trauma1
Member
Once, about 15 years ago. Saw a guy crossing the road headed straight for me while stopped at a stop light. He grabbed the door handle, which was locked then looked up to see a 357 pointed at his head. He changed his mind real quick like. ended up getting arrested about 5 minutes later for retail theft. Scared the daylights out of me though!
The heck with the laws and how they may be interpreted. While
some may believe a person to be in violation of the law or, "what
a court might decide if you pull a gun in a dangerous situation",
i'll gladly be judged by 12 than carried by 6. All a person can do
is use common sence and hope that serves them well.
some may believe a person to be in violation of the law or, "what
a court might decide if you pull a gun in a dangerous situation",
i'll gladly be judged by 12 than carried by 6. All a person can do
is use common sence and hope that serves them well.
I have drawn my sidearm on occasion but only used it twice.
That said, I do not feel state laws need to be of concern. Which is more important, your life, that of fmaily members or a state law? If you feel the absolute need to pull a gun, then you may be able to explain your actions later.
When I was in flight school, I was taught there is a certain point one reaches where they must either take off or abort. The same is true with carrying a sidearm. There is a time when it is too late to draw your weapon. A delay while thinking of laws, the taking of life or whatever can be deadly.
I often laugh at some that carry their guns in places that are difficult to reach. While none of us are Quick Draw McGraw, if you have a couple of armed thugs about to rob and beat you, rape your female accomplice, you need to get your weapon now and not 30 seconds from now. Ankle holsters will not provide that access. Fireams inside the bottom of a purse will not provide that access. A gun holstered inside a button down shirt will not provide that access.
People do not seriously consider what can happen once they get a carry permit. There are things that may or may not happen. You will either never need the gun or you will need it. If you never need it, then great. If you need it though, it will not be the time to think about laws, if you want to take the life of another, is the threat real or perceived and much more. It is also not the time to have a gun so well concealed that you spend seconds getting to it. While it may be easy to practice when not under stress and with an unloaded gun, in real life, it is much different. Pulling a gun or the use of such should not be taken lightly. I know several that carry but will admit to not being able to pull the trigger on someone.
That said, I do not feel state laws need to be of concern. Which is more important, your life, that of fmaily members or a state law? If you feel the absolute need to pull a gun, then you may be able to explain your actions later.
When I was in flight school, I was taught there is a certain point one reaches where they must either take off or abort. The same is true with carrying a sidearm. There is a time when it is too late to draw your weapon. A delay while thinking of laws, the taking of life or whatever can be deadly.
I often laugh at some that carry their guns in places that are difficult to reach. While none of us are Quick Draw McGraw, if you have a couple of armed thugs about to rob and beat you, rape your female accomplice, you need to get your weapon now and not 30 seconds from now. Ankle holsters will not provide that access. Fireams inside the bottom of a purse will not provide that access. A gun holstered inside a button down shirt will not provide that access.
People do not seriously consider what can happen once they get a carry permit. There are things that may or may not happen. You will either never need the gun or you will need it. If you never need it, then great. If you need it though, it will not be the time to think about laws, if you want to take the life of another, is the threat real or perceived and much more. It is also not the time to have a gun so well concealed that you spend seconds getting to it. While it may be easy to practice when not under stress and with an unloaded gun, in real life, it is much different. Pulling a gun or the use of such should not be taken lightly. I know several that carry but will admit to not being able to pull the trigger on someone.
Oldman45, I am also a pilot and your analogy is a good one. There comes a point when you either make a landing or go around, take off or abort, stop trying to start that dead engine and commit to an off field landing.
It's the same with a weapon. Once you produce it that line should have been crossed and you should be willing to use it.
I believe producing a weapon can escalate a situation, but I am prepared for that to happen. I won't show a weapon to try and diffuse a situation, but if it does diffuse it, that would be great. If not, I'll use my weapon.
It's the same with a weapon. Once you produce it that line should have been crossed and you should be willing to use it.
I believe producing a weapon can escalate a situation, but I am prepared for that to happen. I won't show a weapon to try and diffuse a situation, but if it does diffuse it, that would be great. If not, I'll use my weapon.
Great post by oldman45!
If it is not already obvious from previous posts, there are some real advantages to pocket carry. Even a lightning-fast draw from the waist sometimes lacks the advantage that pocket carry has, that of telling the would-be perps that they may have chosen the wrong "victim." Of course, the fast-draw artist may also have ways of letting the perps know that he's armed, without actually showing the weapon.
If it is not already obvious from previous posts, there are some real advantages to pocket carry. Even a lightning-fast draw from the waist sometimes lacks the advantage that pocket carry has, that of telling the would-be perps that they may have chosen the wrong "victim." Of course, the fast-draw artist may also have ways of letting the perps know that he's armed, without actually showing the weapon.
Packard
Member
In the early 1980s I had a Doberman Pincher. A huge, friendly and impressive looking dog. I walked in the local stationary store with him (he was a welcome visitor there) and picked up a copy of the New York Times.
We walked out just as a young child (about 8 years old) walked by. They nearly collided with each other and both the dog and the child were startled. I didn't think much of it. My dog showed no agression. And I walked back to my car.
But apparently the child told his father that I sicced my dog on him. The father came at us with a ball peen hammer in his hand. I had my .38 Airweight out and held close to my side. The guy was yelling about me siccing my dog on his son.
I was able to reason with him and I never pointed the weapon at him. I don't know if he noticed. I had a 135 pound, 29" tall Doberman Pincher on a leash in my left hand. A major distraction.
But the whole thing diffused and he went away.
The whole event had ugly overtones. I'm white; the child was black. The father was just protecting his son; I was protecting myself.
A bad day was avoided. But it shows how easily a misunderstanding could blow up.
We walked out just as a young child (about 8 years old) walked by. They nearly collided with each other and both the dog and the child were startled. I didn't think much of it. My dog showed no agression. And I walked back to my car.
But apparently the child told his father that I sicced my dog on him. The father came at us with a ball peen hammer in his hand. I had my .38 Airweight out and held close to my side. The guy was yelling about me siccing my dog on his son.
I was able to reason with him and I never pointed the weapon at him. I don't know if he noticed. I had a 135 pound, 29" tall Doberman Pincher on a leash in my left hand. A major distraction.
But the whole thing diffused and he went away.
The whole event had ugly overtones. I'm white; the child was black. The father was just protecting his son; I was protecting myself.
A bad day was avoided. But it shows how easily a misunderstanding could blow up.
spoonltz28
Member
I've had to draw my pistol once, during a car accident, the other guy came at me through an open window and started to beat on me while I was still in my car. I pulled my gun and he QUICKLY backed off, so I did not have to fire.
Once you are in a situation, you don't think about the laws, you think about saving your life. That guy was about 1/2 second from being shot in the head.
The LEO that arrived told the guy he was lucky, they would have shot him anyway.
Once you are in a situation, you don't think about the laws, you think about saving your life. That guy was about 1/2 second from being shot in the head.
The LEO that arrived told the guy he was lucky, they would have shot him anyway.
venomballistics
Member
depends on the situation ... extended trips Ill go to a two gun arrangement.
One under the seat and one on my person.
that avoids having to handle a gun at various rest and fuel stops.
short trips, it stays on me
One under the seat and one on my person.
that avoids having to handle a gun at various rest and fuel stops.
short trips, it stays on me
I have fired weapons (AGM-88 missiles) in Iraq in "defense", but they were much larger than what we are talking about here and didn't get "drawn".
I have never had to draw a hangun for self-defense. If I did that movement would likely be followed immediately with multiple shots. If I draw a weapons I plan to use it. The only theoretical exception would be if I was hiding from a threat (like in a closet or something) and drew it to be ready in case I was found but then wasn't found.
I have had someone draw a weapon on me. I was working in a bar in college. I was unarmed. A customer got in a fight with another one. I broke it up and kicked them both out. One of them came back about an hour later and walked up behind me while I was cleaning up. He said something and I turned around and he had a 686 .357 pointed at my head with the muzzle about 10 inches away, the hammer back. I know it was a 686 because it looked like a copy of my 686. He said "I could kill you right now". I calmly talked him down saying all kinds of BS, then called the cops when he left. This is one of 3 times in my life I actually felt like I was about to die.
I have never had to draw a hangun for self-defense. If I did that movement would likely be followed immediately with multiple shots. If I draw a weapons I plan to use it. The only theoretical exception would be if I was hiding from a threat (like in a closet or something) and drew it to be ready in case I was found but then wasn't found.
I have had someone draw a weapon on me. I was working in a bar in college. I was unarmed. A customer got in a fight with another one. I broke it up and kicked them both out. One of them came back about an hour later and walked up behind me while I was cleaning up. He said something and I turned around and he had a 686 .357 pointed at my head with the muzzle about 10 inches away, the hammer back. I know it was a 686 because it looked like a copy of my 686. He said "I could kill you right now". I calmly talked him down saying all kinds of BS, then called the cops when he left. This is one of 3 times in my life I actually felt like I was about to die.
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