The Army Tests the Triple Lock in 1907

[TripleLock]

Beginnning on January 15th, 1907, and continuing until March 28th of that year, the U.S. Army convened a board of five officers to conduct tests of various .45 caliber automatic pistols and revolvers. One of the revolvers included in these tests was an entry from Smith & Wesson that, in its commercial incarnation, would introduce the .44 Smith & Wesson Special and would itself become known as "The Triple Lock".

The findings of the board were reported to Brigadier General William Crozier, Chief of Ordnance, and were published as an appendix to "The Report of the Chief of Ordnance to the Secretary of War" in August of 1907.

From the report:
"All of the above weapons were caliber .45, firing ammunition having a muzzle velocity of approximately 800 feet per second and a weight of bullet of 230 grains."

And
"The distinguishing characteristics of the Smith & Wesson double-action revolver are as follows:
1. There is a sliding block safety device for holding the hamer on rebound.
2. A front cylinder lock maintains the barrel and cylinder in alignment.
3. The cylinder latch operates forward.
4. The barrel is pinned to the frame to prevent rotation.
5. The grip and trigger-guard are too small.
6. The soulder of the frame, against which the hand rests, is vertical and narrow.
7. The cylinder may be revolved by manipulating the trigger and without cocking the hammer.
8. The cylinder rotates to the left and swings out to the left.
9. The barrel of the weapon tested was 6-1/2 inches in length."


The attached PDF contains the results of the Army's testing of the Smith & Wesson revolver, of which there would seem to have been at least two: one with a 6-1/2 inch barrel (mentioned in No.9 above), and one with a 5-1/2 inch barrel, mentioned at the end of the test results.

TL

 

[DCWilson]

Hadn't seen that before. Thanks for posting. I was pretty sure that S&W had to have done some market research and test manufacturing for a heavy-frame hand ejector rather than introducing it cold, but I wasn't specifically aware of those pre-release military trials.

.45 ACP? 5.5-inch barrel? But for the ejector rod shroud and third yoke/cylinder latch, that sounds familiar somehow.

 

[Dan M]

Thanks for posting. I had seen this before here on the forum years ago.
on a side note: perhaps Uncle Ed will show up and tell us what the trials were like as he was there but they wouldn't let him shoot his Schofield

Dan M

 

[Texas Star]

The report mentions a barrel coming unscrewed. I guess S&W learned how to better fit the barrels. The narrow grip was noted, but they took uintil the 1930's to develop the Magna grips!

 

[Oyeboteb]

So, does anyone know - was the Army Trials S&W in question firing .45 Colt, or .45 ACP Ammuniution?

 

[Muley Gil]

So, does anyone know - was the Army Trials S&W in question firing .45 Colt, or .45 ACP Ammuniution?

It couldn't have been the .45 ACP, as the half moon clip hadn't been developed yet (1916, patent assigned to DB Wesson).

It would probably been the .45 Gov't cartridge, which was similar to the Schofield round.

 

[Texas Star]

The M-1909 .45 Colt also hadn't been developed. Frankford Arsenal created it with a wider rim, better for ejection in DA revolvers, like the M-1909 New Service.

The velocities cited in that report suggest that Muley Gil is right, the ammo probably that issued for service in Colt SAA's used in the Phillipines.

 

[DWalt]

There wasn't actually a .45 ACP round as we now know it at that time, but there was a dimensionally very similar round for the M1905 Colt autopistol having a 200 grain bullet. And at that time that round had not been adopted for government use either. The very first .45 rounds for use in an autoloading pistol were hand-made modifications of .45 Colt cases. No, NOT .45 Long Colt cases, as there never was a .45 Short Colt, just a .45 S&W, which was sort of a shortened .45 Colt originally intended for the Schofield but used in both it and the Colt SAA. As pointed out, the M1909 cartridge was essentially the .45 Colt cartridge with a larger diameter rim for use with the Colt New Service revolver, the last handgun officially adopted by the US Army prior to the adoption of the Model 1911. It didn't work so well in the Colt SAA due to rim interference between the chambers unless you were happy with a 3-shot SAA that went BANG-click-BANG-click-BANG. The ammunition used in the triple-lock during these tests was probably the .45 S&W, as that is what the Army standard .45 round was in 1907 (despite its having adopted the .38 Long Colt cartridge and a Colt revolver much earlier, in 1892).

 

[44 special Dave]

I read somewhere there was an experimental round chambered in a 1st model new century called the .45 Frankfort.

Senility settling in or did I read that in one of Jum Supica's books. As I recall it was very early, well before the "triplelock" was actually introduced.

Dave

 

[Muley Gil]

I read somewhere there was an experimental round chambered in a 1st model new century called the .45 Frankfort.

Senility settling in or did I read that in one of Jum Supica's books. As I recall it was very early, well before the "triplelock" was actually introduced.

Dave

That info is on pages 158-1589 of the SCSW, 3rd edition.

 

[ddixie884]

That velocity is a good bit higher than I have seen reported for the .45 government rnd. I seem to recall, that should be 230gr at 800 to 850fps. I think the rnd in question was a S&W rnd. A .45 S&W spl as it were. I am probably way off base here, but would like very much to hear the real story. Some collector has the original trial gun and a second partial gun from the trials.

 

[Hondo44]

That velocity is a good bit higher than I have seen reported for the .45 government rnd. I seem to recall, that should be 230gr at 800 to 850fps. I think the rnd in question was a S&W rnd. A .45 S&W spl as it were. I am probably way off base here, but would like very much to hear the real story. Some collector has the original trial gun and a second partial gun from the trials.

No not off base, it was a 45 S&W Special as described in Muley Gil's reference. (Note: Although often called Frankfort it's actually the Frankford Arsenal.)

From my notes I recall that the 45 S&W Spl (45 Frankford Arsenal) used a 255 Gr. Bullet, was not a standard 45 Colt length and had a larger diameter rim (not to be confused with the 45 AR’s thicker rim). Since it was a smokeless round the wider rim was to prevent use in the remaining Colt SAA’s still in U.S. Armory inventories at the time. Interesting because the original 1873 45 Colt ammo with 40 grs. of blackpowder was more powerful. Albeit the faster pressure spike of smokeless ammo was of course the concern. The 45 Frankford was headstamped April 1906. Apparently more than a couple early T-Locks were chambered in this caliber; one and two digit serial #s under # 20 only. These guns are not caliber stamped and must be confirmed by checking the chambering. S&W’s hopes for acceptance of its new S&W .44 Special caliber or revolver were not to be.

Note: The military trials cartridge is often confused with the 45 Frankford Arsenal produced version of the 45 S&W Schofield (a commercial designation only, not military) which of course eventually replaced all Colt SAA ammo after the S&W Schofield revolvers were put into service. Some bemoaned the lower performance but in reality the original 45 Colt had been downgraded to 28 Grs of blackpowder by that time because of recoil complaints and resulting poor marksmanship. Presumably the new rounds would still take down a horse, one of the original 1872 Military Trials requirements.

I understand that the 1909 Colt New Service can also be found chambered for the 45 Frankford/45 S&W Spl. causing some owners frustration when they tried to use the old original 45 Frankford/commercial 45 Schofield ammo in them and discovered they would not extract properly because of the smaller rim diameter!

 

[Hondo44]

It couldn't have been the .45 ACP, as the half moon clip hadn't been developed yet (1916, patent assigned to DB Wesson).

True, but the full moon clip had been around since it was invented by S&W in the late 1800s for the S&W breaktop revolvers, although never used per Roy Jinks. The 1/2 moon clip evolved in 1916 only because of greater efficiency in military packaging when loaded.

 

[bettis1]

The report mentions a barrel coming unscrewed. I guess S&W learned how to better fit the barrels. The narrow grip was noted, but they took uintil the 1930's to develop the Magna grips!

TS,

Unless I misread it, the reference to the barrel unscrewing on pg. 112 is in the end of the report of a gun (unidentified) that precedes the testing of the S&W. The notes specifically say that the TL barrel was pinned.

A more important question to me is listed on pg. 113, paragraph c. when it reports that they fired "5 rounds by mistake"! WTH does that mean?? Glad I wasn't on the range that day!

Bob

 

[Texas Star]

TS,

Unless I misread it, the reference to the barrel unscrewing on pg. 112 is in the end of the report of a gun (unidentified) that precedes the testing of the S&W. The notes specifically say that the TL barrel was pinned.

A more important question to me is listed on pg. 113, paragraph c. when it reports that they fired "5 rounds by mistake"! WTH does that mean?? Glad I wasn't on the range that day!

Bob

Hi, Bob-


You may be right. I thought the whole report referred to the S&W. And a Colt would be unlikely to foul the crane on the barrel. I think the problem was with the S&W's barrel lug and forward lock. A pinned barrel can come loose, if not well fitted. And this was a new model.

Minus the previous page, it's hard to be sure where the S&W coverage began.

 

[opoefc]

Some years ago, when this Forum began, I posted most of the info. above, and it's good to see a new thread on the subject. Unfortunately the Test Report, or other military archives, did not list the serial number of the two S&W test pistols, (assuming they had serial numbers which they may well have not) or whether they were returned to S&W after the tests. One was destroyed by the rust test, which one is unknown. The late Ray Cheely, his brother Ken, Hugh May and I had lengthly correspondence and discussions on the test guns and the other N frame guns produced in 1906, most of which chambered the .45 S&W Special cartridge, aka .45 Frankford ( or Frankfort) . Somewhere I have four examples of the .45 S&W Special round, each with a different head stamp. Exactly how many guns exist today in caliber .45 S&W Special is not known. Ser. #s 2 & 9 are in .45 Special . Ser # 1 is in .44 S&W & has an additional cylinder in .44 WCF. The approx. one doz. extra .45 Special test frames were made up with zero prefix serial numbers , in the 080's range, and sent to VIPs, but most have .44 Special barrels & cylinders.
My friend , Dan Meigs, has insinuated above the I was present at the Tests but they would not let me shoot my .45 Schofield. He is misinformed. They did let me shoot it and an upcoming article in the Journal correctly identifies my gun as a New Model No. 3 Target in .45 Schofield caliber, not as a .45 Schofield. Ed.

 

[DWalt]

I'm really getting confused with all the talk about a .45 Frankford cartridge and a .45 S&W Special cartridge. Do these things really exist?

So far as I know FA produced (at least post-1876) only the .45 S&W cartridge for the Schofield and SAA, plus the larger rimmed 1909 version for the Colt New Service. The ONLY purpose I have ever read for the larger diameter M1909 rim was that the narrower rimmed cartridges in .45 S&W and .45 Colt calibers did not provide the fully reliable extraction performance in a swing-out cylinder revolver that the Army wanted. It had nothing to do with not allowing their use in the SAA, as the 1909 cartridge COULD be used in it, but only three cartridges in alternating chambers. The first ammunition for the .45 autoloader by Frankford was a 10,000 round test lot made up in 1906 for pistol trials, and that cartridge was somewhat similar to the later-adopted M1911 .45 ACP cartridge, as it had a 230 grain FMJ bullet. Maybe that FA test lot is mistakenly being called the .45 Frankford - I don't know. If that round was used in the triple-lock S&W, it would have necessarily been especially chambered for it, and that does not make much sense (using a rimless cartridge in a revolver).

Regarding the ".45 S&W Special", what is it and what was it chambered in? What would have been the point of developing such a cartridge, with the .45 Colt and the .45 S&W already being in existence?

All I'm asking is for someone to provide proof that the .45 "Frankford" and/or the .45 S&W "Special" cartridges referred to actually existed, separately from the .45 Colt, .45 S&W, or any pre-M1911 .45 autopistol cartridge (such as the 1906 FA test lot).

 

[Oyeboteb]

There wasn't actually a .45 ACP round as we now know it at that time, but there was a dimensionally very similar round for the M1905 Colt autopistol having a 200 grain bullet. And at that time that round had not been adopted for government use either. The very first .45 rounds for use in an autoloading pistol were hand-made modifications of .45 Colt cases. No, NOT .45 Long Colt cases, as there never was a .45 Short Colt, just a .45 S&W, which was sort of a shortened .45 Colt originally intended for the Schofield but used in both it and the Colt SAA. As pointed out, the M1909 cartridge was essentially the .45 Colt cartridge with a larger diameter rim for use with the Colt New Service revolver, the last handgun officially adopted by the US Army prior to the adoption of the Model 1911. It didn't work so well in the Colt SAA due to rim interference between the chambers unless you were happy with a 3-shot SAA that went BANG-click-BANG-click-BANG. The ammunition used in the triple-lock during these tests was probably the .45 S&W, as that is what the Army standard .45 round was in 1907 (despite its having adopted the .38 Long Colt cartridge and a Colt revolver much earlier, in 1892).

I am glad that all of this is so free of possible confusion.

( Lol...)

What a mess it all was! ( ie: the entire Military History of the .45 Calibre Cartridge...)

Much enjoyed and appreciate your grasp and relaying of these details!

 

[Hondo44]

Some years ago, when this Forum began, I posted most of the info. above, and it's good to see a new thread on the subject. Unfortunately the Test Report, or other military archives, did not list the serial number of the two S&W test pistols, (assuming they had serial numbers which they may well have not) or whether they were returned to S&W after the tests. One was destroyed by the rust test, which one is unknown. The late Ray Cheely, his brother Ken, Hugh May and I had lengthly correspondence and discussions on the test guns and the other N frame guns produced in 1906, most of which chambered the .45 S&W Special cartridge, aka .45 Frankford ( or Frankfort) . Somewhere I have four examples of the .45 S&W Special round, each with a different head stamp. Exactly how many guns exist today in caliber .45 S&W Special is not known. Ser. #s 2 & 9 are in .45 Special . Ser # 1 is in .44 S&W & has an additional cylinder in .44 WCF. The approx. one doz. extra .45 Special test frames were made up with zero prefix serial numbers , in the 080's range, and sent to VIPs, but most have .44 Special barrels & cylinders.
My friend , Dan Meigs, has insinuated above the I was present at the Tests but they would not let me shoot my .45 Schofield. He is misinformed. They did let me shoot it and an upcoming article in the Journal correctly identifies my gun as a new Model No. 3 Target in .45 Schofield caliber, not a a .45 Schofield. Ed.

Hi Ed,

Thank you. I found your comment in this thread,
http://smith-wessonforum.com/swca-members-forum/211197-triple-lock-096-a.html
referenced at the bottom of this thread, very interesting as well:

"Interesting gun. Several of the series of these special VIP T-Locks in the dozen gun series are in collections of our members. The frames were left over from a group made for the 1906 Army trials for the .45 Special caliber handguns."

 

[ddixie884]

The PDF contained velocity readings of from just under to just over 1,000fps. I don't think the govt was loading any ammo that fast at that time. The .45 gvt was a 230gr over 28gr black for approx 830fps. The 1909 was a 250gr loaded with 8.4gr RSQ for approx 750fps. I am very interested in this topic, and hope more info is forthcoming. Does anyone know the dimensions of this cartridge?