Denver Dick
US Veteran
Slight correction: NYPD has approx. 36,000 sworn officers (very, very large). CHP has approx. 7,500 sworn officers (large).
3rd Gen Obsolete?
- Thread starter ColColt
- Start date
Slight correction: NYPD has approx. 36,000 sworn officers (very, very large). CHP has approx. 7,500 sworn officers (large).
Copy that
I think the NYPD allows the 5946 as a duty gun along with Glock 19 and Sig P226 DAO. AND revolvers are grandfathered in for the older guys.
Perhaps you mean off-duty guns? They're having a big switch right now, officers are turning in their Kahr K9's and $50 for a new G26. My FFL is inundated with NYPD coming in and switching OD's.
Last edited:
I know S&W has made several interesting 3rd Gens for the NYPD in recent year, presumably for off duty use. They seem to have the only supply of the 3914DAO and the 3914TSW. And to confirm what ladder13 said, I have seen a few police-trade-in Kahr K9's on the market recently. I was wondering where they were coming from.
You're going to see 1,000's on the market, if Kahr releases them. Don't know what deal they made with the devil, Bloomberg.
I would think they authorize the DAO version of the 3900 series, the 3953 and 3954. Maybe??
Forum member Big Boku could shed a whole bunch of light on this.
SIG and Beretta are probably my favorite manufacturer these days, simply because they still make metal guns. Smith hasn't really impressed me in the last 10 years, I'd rather buy a nice used 1st/2nd/3rd gen auto or a used non-trigger lock wheelgun by them. I also refuse to buy one of the SIG P250's, and yes I have shot and handled them. They simply do not look like a completed gun from the back, I'm just picky I guess. My GLOCK, USP and XD will suffice in the plastic department...otherwise it's all metal for me. I wish the others in my generation felt the same way, but sadly they all want plastic.
You're going to see 1,000's on the market, if Kahr releases them. Don't know what deal they made with the devil, Bloomberg.
I would think they authorize the DAO version of the 3900 series, the 3953 and 3954. Maybe??
Forum member Big Boku could shed a whole bunch of light on this.
The 3953/54 is authorized for; off duty/retired LEO (NYC)
I agree with You .
Sig P226 9mm (or SIG MK23 9mm) and Beretta 92 series ( or 92G LE, M9) are WORLD popular service pistols that are really great. Much better than most. The only pistol with a better record is an FN Hi Power 9mm.
The only pistol that can give them and IS giving them true competition (WORLDWIDE) is a G17 9mm.
With LE , G22 GEN4 (15/22 rd magazine capacity) seems to be be a weapon of choice here in US.
I've only had two autos that never gave any trouble at all...the 4506 and the HK USP-C 45. If I were to choose a 9mm it would definitely be the USP-C in that caliber over a SIG...unless, it was a P226 made in Germany-the whole thing, not just the slide or frame. My P220 from the early 90's was another flawless pistol. Made in Germany as well and digested the flying ashtray equally as well as ball ammo.
Sauergrapes
Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2009
- Messages
- 42
- Reaction score
- 10
I've been going back and forth with S&W for 3 months trying to get a decocker for my 4006. It's frustrating that parts are difficult to obtain.
I love the S&W autos but, I think I'm going to sell mine. I just don't see the point in owning guns I can't get parts for.
If I need a paperwieght, I'll go to Staples.
I love the S&W autos but, I think I'm going to sell mine. I just don't see the point in owning guns I can't get parts for.
If I need a paperwieght, I'll go to Staples.
Buy an old parts pistol cheap...or, if you decide to sell, let me know what you have. On the other hand, this may help get you started in the right direction.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=11552/Product/DECOCKER-LEVER-ASSEMBLY-LEFT-SS
On the other hand, this may help get you started in the right direction.http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=11552/Product/DECOCKER-LEVER-ASSEMBLY-LEFT-SS
VTHokiesDuckHunter
Member
Don't forget the WVSP (West Virginia State Police) just made a very large order of Melonite 4566's:
S&W also continues to make the 952. I think you will continue to see both OEM and aftermarket parts available for 3rd gens.
I would buy a Melonite 4566 in a heartbeat. They are absolutely crazy not to make some special runs of these guns, along with 3913's, 5903's, CS series, and Shorty 40's.
VTHokiesDuckHunter
Member
Sauer:
I wouldn't give up on it. Most guys find parts pretty quickly on these forums, or eventually through S&W. They are starting to make some new orders for LEO's (like the recent large order by the WVSP for Melonite 4566's).
That's kind of like saying you're getting rid of a mint '69 Corvette because you can't get parts from GM or NAPA.
I'm a little frustrated too, that they aren't making production runs of certain 3rd gens. But I believe they will soon. The new 1911 line is selling well, and they are getting more and more pressure from LEO organizations for metal pistol options.
In the mean time, keep your 4006 and buy a SIG or Beretta!
Am I in trouble?
I might be in bad trouble from the sounds of this thread. My favorite piece is a 2nd gen. mdl. 909 that I got from Boise gun via Auction arms. It appears to be in Exceptional condition. I dont even shoot it much, it looks so good. I hope it stays that way. I have a CZ 75b & an FEG PA63 (9x18 mak.) that I shoot the s--- out of. I also need to get some more time on my Ti. Tracker .357, if this damned rain will ever quit. Its been one wet spring, after a nasty winter, so far. Happy times to all.
I might be in bad trouble from the sounds of this thread. My favorite piece is a 2nd gen. mdl. 909 that I got from Boise gun via Auction arms. It appears to be in Exceptional condition. I dont even shoot it much, it looks so good. I hope it stays that way. I have a CZ 75b & an FEG PA63 (9x18 mak.) that I shoot the s--- out of. I also need to get some more time on my Ti. Tracker .357, if this damned rain will ever quit. Its been one wet spring, after a nasty winter, so far. Happy times to all.
Obsolete?
I bought a Model 6906 in the early '90s and carried it every day in some of the worst terrain & weather conditions you can imagine.
Definitely "severe-duty environment".
I was operating a lunch-wagon business in rural Miami-Dade County at the time, requiring that I carry cash deep in the boonies/B.F.E./middle-of-nowhere, and that pistol allowed me to survive (and come out on the winning end of) three armed-robbery attempts.
It concealed beautifully, performed flawlessly & never failed to do what it was designed to.
It's still my CCW gun of choice to this day.
I bought a Model 6906 in the early '90s and carried it every day in some of the worst terrain & weather conditions you can imagine.
Definitely "severe-duty environment".
I was operating a lunch-wagon business in rural Miami-Dade County at the time, requiring that I carry cash deep in the boonies/B.F.E./middle-of-nowhere, and that pistol allowed me to survive (and come out on the winning end of) three armed-robbery attempts.
It concealed beautifully, performed flawlessly & never failed to do what it was designed to.
It's still my CCW gun of choice to this day.
I seem to remember talk here a few years ago about putting together a "special order" from Smith. I forgot the guy who was trying to put it together. Don't recall the number that was needed for them to crank em' out, something like 50 or 100??? More??? Maybe Smith wouldn't do a civilian order. I'm sure someone like Lew Horton could do it, if they knew the market was there.
Problem is getting 50 to 100 or more people to agree on the same gun, who would "hold" the money since no one is going out on a limb and paying for 100 guns all by themselves, and getting an FFL to order and distribute them. Probably more issues than those.
Fastbolt
Member
Are you talking about the optional spring-loaded, decock-only assembly? If so, that option requires either a slide modification of the older 4006's, or else a 4006TSW (which has the necessary slide modification). Both the standard manual safety and the spring-loaded version were made in both plain stainless and black finish.
Also, that option was originally designed and intended for use on LE guns, although S&W was doing modifications and installations for the occasional commercial gun (back when the 3rd gen's were still in production).
While the CHP (CA Highway Patrol) out here have that option on their 4006TSW's, and the company will stock repair parts for them, I've been told that it's not an option (parts assembly) that they're usually keeping in-stock for retail sales (to either vendors or retail customers). They might request some short production runs of that part from their vendor from time to time (and which also requires some in-house machining of the received cast parts to finish them), but don't be surprised if it becomes an "obsolete" part at some point for "retail sales".
Yes, it's a shame that S&W has mostly left the metal-framed traditional double action service pistol market to Sig and Beretta (when S&W was making it before both companies), but don't be surprised to see both of those other companies slowly shift manufacturing & sales emphasis over to their own plastic framed pistols for LE/Gov sales at some point. The costs and time involved in forging and machining metal frames simply can't be reduced to that of what's involved in making plastic frames.
I can see Beretta doing that with their PX4 series once the M9 is replaced. Simply put, between civilian and government sales the M9 is a cash cow for them. However, with SIG I don't think we'll see them push their P250 series in place of the P220/226/229 etc. That is their flagship series, and quite honestly what draws people to their brand. The P250 is just to compete with budget pistols and would never replace a full size combat grade handgun.
Fastbolt
Member
Actually, even Sig has stated that their new P250 platform was designed to offer LE/Gov/Military customers a new platform, allowing them the opportunity to create either a full-size service pistol (uniform) or a fairly smallish compact (plainclothes), depending on their needs. The modularity of the model overcomes the necessity of having to buy different size serialized metal frames.
Expect them to increasingly push this series in the future (as soon as it does as well as they'd desire in exhaustive LE/Gov testing). The 250 line, as well as the 2022 line, may well become the "flagship" models for the future of LE/Gov/Military marketing at some point in the US. (Look to the international Gov sales market of Sig service pistols to see the potential future trend in this regard.)
The "Classic" lines may well someday go the way of S&W's 3rd gen guns if private owners/customers start curtailing their purchases of the increasingly expensive pistols that require forged and machined metal frames.
Last edited:
