3rd Gen Obsolete?

The Hogues for the 4516 will work on the current production 4513/4553TSW's that use 7-rd mags.

The curved butt plate will still extend below the bottom of the frame, just like the bottom gun in the picture of the pair I posted.

If someone installed the thin butt plate (like that used on the 8-rd mags for the 4506/4566) it would look a bit weird). ;)

It does look weird thats why I would like to have them look like the bottem one.
 
I just got back one of my 4003TSWs from Jim Rae and his Team at the Performance Center. For $148 they did the following:

--Took off the TSW Rail
--Refinished the lower half
--Replaced the drawbar (paucity of parts???)
--Replaced the plastic disconnector with a STEEL one
--Replaced ALL of the springs
--Bead Balsted and re-marked the slide with a smaller, less garish TSW logo
--Replaced the grips
--Replaced the spurred hammer with my supplied bobbed hammer

I will send my other 4003TSW to them for a complete re-finish. These guns were bought from Robertson's Trading Post and were Westfield, MASS PD guns dating from 2001. They were NASTY! The one (w/o the rail) is for all intents and purposes NEW.

The dedicated rail gun that will go out next week was modified (by opening the aperature of the TSW rail) to accept the X300 (with backplate filler taken off). It too when completed, will be for all intents and purposes NEW.

To say I am pleased is a gross understatement! Jim Rae is to be commended for his work on my pistol.

In the interim, I sent my wife's 3914 off to him so he can modify the safety levers to de-cock only. He has been VERY forgiving and is never too busy to answer questions.

As for the springs, I replaced the firing pin springs in all of my 3rd Gen pistols with Wolff Extra Power firing pin springs. They said it would take up to a month to receive them. I had them within a week.

I always save my parts, in case I had to re-build or otherwise replace parts.

I love the reducncy and inherent strength of the 3rd Gens. 18DAI thanks for listening to my rants. I'll let you know how both of the .40s turn out.

Could you please post a link to his website and maybe some pics?

Regards
 
Craig 19 and Mike 4,

It cost me $148 (shipping included) for everything. They got it back to me in 3-weeks.

My other 4003TSW is on its way back for it to be re-finished. I'll be sure to post pics when I get them back.

-Greg
 
Well if I'm Joe Six Pack looking for a new 3rd Generation Smith and Wesson pistol, the first place I'm going to look is on their web site.

I clock on "Pistols" and view the 75 models shown.

Zero - zilch - nada.

Maybe they're in "Championship and Pro"?

7 Models and I got bumpkis.

I know, "Performance Center" ...

Uh, nothing for 26.

If they are available to the general public, one has to be on the inside track to get one. Sorry fellas, the all steel pistol from Smith and Wesson is a thing of the past.
 
Yes, strangely enough they have now taken the 952 off the web site and only show it as an archived image:

Search Results - Smith & Wesson

Hopefully they will correct this soon.

If not, I will only be buying new guns from SIG and Beretta, and used 3rd gens from 3rd parties, GunBroker and the like. IT looks like S&W would want the revenue that runs of 3rd gens would generate.
 
Being from a third world country where gun importers and distributors never bother to offer any spares, I'm used to hunting down parts for my guns, old or new.

In Argentina, if you're into any kind of hobby that's not mainstream, you slowly get into the habit of stockpiling gear or supplies. This applies to almost anything outside of soccer. :(

Gun distributors don't offer any sort of customer support. They won't fix a broken handgun. The best you can hope for (assuming the chaps at the gun store back you up) is a refund.

Those who shoot a lot and are hard on their pistols (like IPSC shooters) are stuck with Glocks and 1911s. Browning HPs are also quite popular with shooters because there's a very good locally produced version (it was made under FN license for a long time) and since it was standard issue for the army and many police agencies, parts are easy to find.
 
Being from a third world country where gun importers and distributors never bother to offer any spares, I'm used to hunting down parts for my guns, old or new.

In Argentina, if you're into any kind of hobby that's not mainstream, you slowly get into the habit of stockpiling gear or supplies. This applies to almost anything outside of soccer. :(

Gun distributors don't offer any sort of customer support. They won't fix a broken handgun. The best you can hope for (assuming the chaps at the gun store back you up) is a refund.

Those who shoot a lot and are hard on their pistols (like IPSC shooters) are stuck with Glocks and 1911s. Browning HPs are also quite popular with shooters because there's a very good locally produced version (it was made under FN license for a long time) and since it was standard issue for the army and many police agencies, parts are easy to find.

Good points,Franciscomv! We are very fortunate here in the US, most parts are plentiful for name brands at least but it would be smart to stock up on Gen 3 parts now while it's possible.

BTW, I have an FM Hi Power, one that was built while still under the FN license. Every bit as good as the FN and fortunately as you said is 100% compatible with standard Hi Power parts.
 
Being from a third world country where gun importers and distributors never bother to offer any spares, I'm used to hunting down parts for my guns, old or new.


Those who shoot a lot and are hard on their pistols (like IPSC shooters) are stuck with Glocks and 1911s. Browning HPs are also quite popular with shooters because there's a very good locally produced version (it was made under FN license for a long time) and since it was standard issue for the army and many police agencies, parts are easy to find.

What about HK pistols...are they hard to come by? Superb weapons.
 
Craig 19 and Mike 4,

It cost me $148 (shipping included) for everything. They got it back to me in 3-weeks.

My other 4003TSW is on its way back for it to be re-finished. I'll be sure to post pics when I get them back.

-Greg

My 4553TSW is on it's way to be completely refurbished. I haven't UPSed a pistol for a number of years and after the lady told me UPS didn't want pistols in their system anyway she popped me $70 to ship it. Maybe I should have checked FEDEX. I don't know if they would be any more realistic or if it's one of those "because they can things"
 
Craig 19 and Mike 4,

It cost me $148 (shipping included) for everything. They got it back to me in 3-weeks.

My other 4003TSW is on its way back for it to be re-finished. I'll be sure to post pics when I get them back.

-Greg

Wow, that's pretty awesome. I may have to look into that for my 5906, its a little rough around the edges.
 
I just placed an order for recoil springs for my 6906 and 5906 and a +2 grip adaptor for the 6906. I also needed the grip pin, but they were out stock and also didn't have a recoil spring for the 4006. The guy I spoke to said they would be back in stock in a couple weeks. It sounds like they are still supporting these pistols, at least.
 
Heaven knows how many 3 gen pistols are out there. Many of them are still in service, even if they are no longer a common LE gun. People who have them will try to keep them running and will pretty quickly soak up replacement parts. Springs will probably be available from Wolff for some time, but I suspect the supply of other replacement parts is limited to what now exists. Parts that are common to several models will be the easiest to find. The stuff that's specific to one caliber or model will be the first to go. The first auto I truly lusted after was a 39-2 in 1964, when I was 15. I can probably keep what I have running for the period of time that I'm likely to interested, but their days are numbered.

I, and many others, have gone through this process with Colt DA revolvers. Smith and Wesson has at least not just walked away from their customers. They have a few LE users they will support as best they can, but in a few years, parts and service will be hard to come by.

I love them, but these guns are now part of the past, not the future.

Then you buy two of every one you like and you have your spare parts. :D
 
Then you buy two of every one you like and you have your spare parts. :D

Always the way to go, if for no other reason than if you like it, they will probably stop making it!:)

Over the years, I've picked up a 3913, 3913NL, 3953, 3954, 6946, CS9, 4013TSW, and a 457.

The only 3rd Gen I've ever gotten rid of was the CS9. I have large hands and I just could not hold on to it. I traded it for the 4013 TSW, which was a mistake.

If it comes down to it, I can "Rob Peter to pay Paul", and keep something running. But I don't think that will be neccessary; the parts that you are most likely to need are going to be available for years, just not forever.
 
There's another way to look at this subject, too.

S&W has been busy shifting money toward a lot of new projects, which has let their retail/repair inventory of 3rd gen parts diminish. However, it's not like they're having to work on these guns all the time.

One of the problems of trying to get new 3rd gen armorers enough practice after they come back from an armorer class is trying to come up with enough guns for them to work on so their skills and knowledge don't fade. They usually seem to run a long time without requiring the attention of an armorer, gunsmith or factory tech. Ditto not needing a lot of repair parts.

When I was a junior armorer I remember coming back from my first class with a list of all the parts I thought we ought to order, and the head armorer just chuckling and saying we needed to spend our money on other things, like ammo. We had a very meager supply of "repair parts", and we had a few hundred guns in service and reserve.

Then, as time passed, we just didn't have that many guns that required repair. It was infrequent enough that we had to "share" the repair of one of the older guns, with the available armorers gathering around an armorer replacing/fitting a part on the odd gun that actually came across the bench. I know armorers that had to wait a few years before they were able to get a gun on which they could actually replace and fit an extractor or sear release lever.

A couple of us who were concerned about our skills disappearing would pull an occasional training gun to practice full disassembly/reassembly, etc. (Except for rear sights & extractors, as you don't want to be removing & replacing sights and extractor pins unless really required, to avoid needless slide wear and reduce the potential for damage.)

It took quite a few years before our minimal parts supply was reduced to the point we actually had to start ordering some (and then only a few now and again).

I have parts I've bought for my own supply over the years that I know I'll probably never need to use (for either my 3rd gen guns or those of friends, for whom I provide armorer inspection, support and maintenance every now and again).

Maybe the company is just spending their money where they feel it's needed for that last several years, and only replenishing their repair parts supply as needed? I could see them getting out of the retail parts business for 3rd gen guns, especially if they haven't been getting a constant stream of orders for them. They'll probably just place orders to their parts vendors as needed, keeping a minimal investment available for in-house repair (for their lifetime warranty support) ... and maybe some for occasional sales to outside companies who sell their parts.

This thread (and a couple of guns that required new parts which I didn't have) reminds me ... I need to make a Glock parts order. My supply of those parts has run low, and I've been needing more Glock parts for guns. I've been having to either call for warranty replacement parts or buy them from an outside company. I've needed more Glock parts for repair recently than 3rd gen parts. ;)
 
De nada.

The reasons I started getting a lot of bench time was that our guns were reaching the point where they'd been in-service for 15-20 years, so normal wear & tear (and user abuse/neglect) were starting to take their toll ... and I made sure I was always available for anything that needed to be done, even if it was just an inspection/detailed cleaning. Not all folks assigned armorer responsibilities are necessarily enthusiastic about doing armorer chores, you know.

Most of the reported "gun problems" that were brought to my attention more often than not turned out to be caused by improper cleaning/lubrication or "shooter" issues.

I've done far more detailed disassemblies to identify & resolve neglect (dirty guns) and improper cleaning (usually excessive lubrication that accumulated and caused functioning issues at some point).

If you speak with factory techs, gunsmiths and armorers, when it comes to semiautomatic pistols, day in & day out, upwards of 95% of "gun problems" usually seem to be caused by the shooter, in some manner or other. (Meaning manipulation or grip technique issues that created stoppages or other malfunctions, or poor user cleaning & lubrication practices.) The remaining 5% is split between ammunition and actual gun problems, with ammo problems often being more likely to be involved. Gun problems requiring repair or correction might come along maybe 2-3% of the time. Maybe.
 
Fb-You mentioned not fooling with the extractor taking it out. What if you need an extractor itself, or the spring-send it to S&W? I guess that's not something the backyard gunsmith can do easily. I've ordered a parts kit from Wolff that does include the extractor spring along with a host of others like the ejector spring. That I think I could handle.
 
Fitting a new extractor typically involves filing & fitting it to a particular slide. Fitting it requires the use of a factory GO/NO-GO bar gauge. ($70 tool)

The extractor spring tension is checked using a force dial gauge, which checks tension at the onset of extractor deflection. ($150 tool) The factory has an assortment of different strength extractor springs available, so a tech/gunsmith/armorer can use whichever spring provides the desired tension in any particular gun. I'd use factory extractor springs, myself.

Unless you're a gunsmith or factory trained armorer, I'd have the factory, or one of their authorized warranty centers, do the work if that sort of repair is ever necessary.

The little springs that fit in the frame under the ejector (left side) and the sear release lever & firing pin safety lever (right side) hardly ever require replacement because they've worn out ... (I've never had one wear out) ... but usually because they were lost during disassembly. ;)

The plunger springs in the slide, under the rear sight, can require replacement when someone removes & re-installs the rear sight base, and the top coil(s) gets bent/clipped by the leading edge of the sight base during reassembly.

I've never had a factory drawbar plunger spring wear out, either, but I've had a reduced power spring wear out and allow Skips-DA to occur.

I've sometimes (not often) come across a weakening firing pin spring.

Never wore out a factory main (hammer) spring.

A mag catch spring can get corroded or rusty if the gun is subjected to the wrong conditions without occasional inspection/service.

The trigger play spring might wear and break at some point, but the gun runs without it (just has some additional slop in the SA trigger). Folks trying to "adjust" it all the time cane break it, though.

The manual safety body plunger & ambi lever plunger springs can become lost during a detailed diassembly (or worse, mixed up, which can cause functioning problems). Never wore any out, but I've lost an occasional ambi lever spring. :eek:

Now, mag & recoil springs? I'd keep enough each of the factory springs for periodic replacement/repair. :)
 

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