My 4553TSW is on it's way to be completely refurbished. I haven't UPSed a pistol for a number of years and after the lady told me UPS didn't want pistols in their system anyway she popped me $70 to ship it. Maybe I should have checked FEDEX. I don't know if they would be any more realistic or if it's one of those "because they can things"
3rd Gen Obsolete?
- Thread starter ColColt
- Start date
My 4553TSW is on it's way to be completely refurbished. I haven't UPSed a pistol for a number of years and after the lady told me UPS didn't want pistols in their system anyway she popped me $70 to ship it. Maybe I should have checked FEDEX. I don't know if they would be any more realistic or if it's one of those "because they can things"
Craig19
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Wow, that's pretty awesome. I may have to look into that for my 5906, its a little rough around the edges.
Craig19
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I just placed an order for recoil springs for my 6906 and 5906 and a +2 grip adaptor for the 6906. I also needed the grip pin, but they were out stock and also didn't have a recoil spring for the 4006. The guy I spoke to said they would be back in stock in a couple weeks. It sounds like they are still supporting these pistols, at least.
Texas1941
Member
Then you buy two of every one you like and you have your spare parts.
Always the way to go, if for no other reason than if you like it, they will probably stop making it!
Over the years, I've picked up a 3913, 3913NL, 3953, 3954, 6946, CS9, 4013TSW, and a 457.
The only 3rd Gen I've ever gotten rid of was the CS9. I have large hands and I just could not hold on to it. I traded it for the 4013 TSW, which was a mistake.
If it comes down to it, I can "Rob Peter to pay Paul", and keep something running. But I don't think that will be neccessary; the parts that you are most likely to need are going to be available for years, just not forever.
There's another way to look at this subject, too.
S&W has been busy shifting money toward a lot of new projects, which has let their retail/repair inventory of 3rd gen parts diminish. However, it's not like they're having to work on these guns all the time.
One of the problems of trying to get new 3rd gen armorers enough practice after they come back from an armorer class is trying to come up with enough guns for them to work on so their skills and knowledge don't fade. They usually seem to run a long time without requiring the attention of an armorer, gunsmith or factory tech. Ditto not needing a lot of repair parts.
When I was a junior armorer I remember coming back from my first class with a list of all the parts I thought we ought to order, and the head armorer just chuckling and saying we needed to spend our money on other things, like ammo. We had a very meager supply of "repair parts", and we had a few hundred guns in service and reserve.
Then, as time passed, we just didn't have that many guns that required repair. It was infrequent enough that we had to "share" the repair of one of the older guns, with the available armorers gathering around an armorer replacing/fitting a part on the odd gun that actually came across the bench. I know armorers that had to wait a few years before they were able to get a gun on which they could actually replace and fit an extractor or sear release lever.
A couple of us who were concerned about our skills disappearing would pull an occasional training gun to practice full disassembly/reassembly, etc. (Except for rear sights & extractors, as you don't want to be removing & replacing sights and extractor pins unless really required, to avoid needless slide wear and reduce the potential for damage.)
It took quite a few years before our minimal parts supply was reduced to the point we actually had to start ordering some (and then only a few now and again).
I have parts I've bought for my own supply over the years that I know I'll probably never need to use (for either my 3rd gen guns or those of friends, for whom I provide armorer inspection, support and maintenance every now and again).
Maybe the company is just spending their money where they feel it's needed for that last several years, and only replenishing their repair parts supply as needed? I could see them getting out of the retail parts business for 3rd gen guns, especially if they haven't been getting a constant stream of orders for them. They'll probably just place orders to their parts vendors as needed, keeping a minimal investment available for in-house repair (for their lifetime warranty support) ... and maybe some for occasional sales to outside companies who sell their parts.
This thread (and a couple of guns that required new parts which I didn't have) reminds me ... I need to make a Glock parts order. My supply of those parts has run low, and I've been needing more Glock parts for guns. I've been having to either call for warranty replacement parts or buy them from an outside company. I've needed more Glock parts for repair recently than 3rd gen parts.
S&W has been busy shifting money toward a lot of new projects, which has let their retail/repair inventory of 3rd gen parts diminish. However, it's not like they're having to work on these guns all the time.
One of the problems of trying to get new 3rd gen armorers enough practice after they come back from an armorer class is trying to come up with enough guns for them to work on so their skills and knowledge don't fade. They usually seem to run a long time without requiring the attention of an armorer, gunsmith or factory tech. Ditto not needing a lot of repair parts.
When I was a junior armorer I remember coming back from my first class with a list of all the parts I thought we ought to order, and the head armorer just chuckling and saying we needed to spend our money on other things, like ammo. We had a very meager supply of "repair parts", and we had a few hundred guns in service and reserve.
Then, as time passed, we just didn't have that many guns that required repair. It was infrequent enough that we had to "share" the repair of one of the older guns, with the available armorers gathering around an armorer replacing/fitting a part on the odd gun that actually came across the bench. I know armorers that had to wait a few years before they were able to get a gun on which they could actually replace and fit an extractor or sear release lever.
A couple of us who were concerned about our skills disappearing would pull an occasional training gun to practice full disassembly/reassembly, etc. (Except for rear sights & extractors, as you don't want to be removing & replacing sights and extractor pins unless really required, to avoid needless slide wear and reduce the potential for damage.)
It took quite a few years before our minimal parts supply was reduced to the point we actually had to start ordering some (and then only a few now and again).
I have parts I've bought for my own supply over the years that I know I'll probably never need to use (for either my 3rd gen guns or those of friends, for whom I provide armorer inspection, support and maintenance every now and again).
Maybe the company is just spending their money where they feel it's needed for that last several years, and only replenishing their repair parts supply as needed? I could see them getting out of the retail parts business for 3rd gen guns, especially if they haven't been getting a constant stream of orders for them. They'll probably just place orders to their parts vendors as needed, keeping a minimal investment available for in-house repair (for their lifetime warranty support) ... and maybe some for occasional sales to outside companies who sell their parts.
This thread (and a couple of guns that required new parts which I didn't have) reminds me ... I need to make a Glock parts order. My supply of those parts has run low, and I've been needing more Glock parts for guns. I've been having to either call for warranty replacement parts or buy them from an outside company. I've needed more Glock parts for repair recently than 3rd gen parts.
Catshooter
Member
That's a very interesting post you make Fastbolt. Thanks for that veiwpoint.
Cat
Cat
De nada.
The reasons I started getting a lot of bench time was that our guns were reaching the point where they'd been in-service for 15-20 years, so normal wear & tear (and user abuse/neglect) were starting to take their toll ... and I made sure I was always available for anything that needed to be done, even if it was just an inspection/detailed cleaning. Not all folks assigned armorer responsibilities are necessarily enthusiastic about doing armorer chores, you know.
Most of the reported "gun problems" that were brought to my attention more often than not turned out to be caused by improper cleaning/lubrication or "shooter" issues.
I've done far more detailed disassemblies to identify & resolve neglect (dirty guns) and improper cleaning (usually excessive lubrication that accumulated and caused functioning issues at some point).
If you speak with factory techs, gunsmiths and armorers, when it comes to semiautomatic pistols, day in & day out, upwards of 95% of "gun problems" usually seem to be caused by the shooter, in some manner or other. (Meaning manipulation or grip technique issues that created stoppages or other malfunctions, or poor user cleaning & lubrication practices.) The remaining 5% is split between ammunition and actual gun problems, with ammo problems often being more likely to be involved. Gun problems requiring repair or correction might come along maybe 2-3% of the time. Maybe.
The reasons I started getting a lot of bench time was that our guns were reaching the point where they'd been in-service for 15-20 years, so normal wear & tear (and user abuse/neglect) were starting to take their toll ... and I made sure I was always available for anything that needed to be done, even if it was just an inspection/detailed cleaning. Not all folks assigned armorer responsibilities are necessarily enthusiastic about doing armorer chores, you know.
Most of the reported "gun problems" that were brought to my attention more often than not turned out to be caused by improper cleaning/lubrication or "shooter" issues.
I've done far more detailed disassemblies to identify & resolve neglect (dirty guns) and improper cleaning (usually excessive lubrication that accumulated and caused functioning issues at some point).
If you speak with factory techs, gunsmiths and armorers, when it comes to semiautomatic pistols, day in & day out, upwards of 95% of "gun problems" usually seem to be caused by the shooter, in some manner or other. (Meaning manipulation or grip technique issues that created stoppages or other malfunctions, or poor user cleaning & lubrication practices.) The remaining 5% is split between ammunition and actual gun problems, with ammo problems often being more likely to be involved. Gun problems requiring repair or correction might come along maybe 2-3% of the time. Maybe.
Fb-You mentioned not fooling with the extractor taking it out. What if you need an extractor itself, or the spring-send it to S&W? I guess that's not something the backyard gunsmith can do easily. I've ordered a parts kit from Wolff that does include the extractor spring along with a host of others like the ejector spring. That I think I could handle.
Fitting a new extractor typically involves filing & fitting it to a particular slide. Fitting it requires the use of a factory GO/NO-GO bar gauge. ($70 tool)
The extractor spring tension is checked using a force dial gauge, which checks tension at the onset of extractor deflection. ($150 tool) The factory has an assortment of different strength extractor springs available, so a tech/gunsmith/armorer can use whichever spring provides the desired tension in any particular gun. I'd use factory extractor springs, myself.
Unless you're a gunsmith or factory trained armorer, I'd have the factory, or one of their authorized warranty centers, do the work if that sort of repair is ever necessary.
The little springs that fit in the frame under the ejector (left side) and the sear release lever & firing pin safety lever (right side) hardly ever require replacement because they've worn out ... (I've never had one wear out) ... but usually because they were lost during disassembly.
The plunger springs in the slide, under the rear sight, can require replacement when someone removes & re-installs the rear sight base, and the top coil(s) gets bent/clipped by the leading edge of the sight base during reassembly.
I've never had a factory drawbar plunger spring wear out, either, but I've had a reduced power spring wear out and allow Skips-DA to occur.
I've sometimes (not often) come across a weakening firing pin spring.
Never wore out a factory main (hammer) spring.
A mag catch spring can get corroded or rusty if the gun is subjected to the wrong conditions without occasional inspection/service.
The trigger play spring might wear and break at some point, but the gun runs without it (just has some additional slop in the SA trigger). Folks trying to "adjust" it all the time cane break it, though.
The manual safety body plunger & ambi lever plunger springs can become lost during a detailed diassembly (or worse, mixed up, which can cause functioning problems). Never wore any out, but I've lost an occasional ambi lever spring.
Now, mag & recoil springs? I'd keep enough each of the factory springs for periodic replacement/repair.
The extractor spring tension is checked using a force dial gauge, which checks tension at the onset of extractor deflection. ($150 tool) The factory has an assortment of different strength extractor springs available, so a tech/gunsmith/armorer can use whichever spring provides the desired tension in any particular gun. I'd use factory extractor springs, myself.
Unless you're a gunsmith or factory trained armorer, I'd have the factory, or one of their authorized warranty centers, do the work if that sort of repair is ever necessary.
The little springs that fit in the frame under the ejector (left side) and the sear release lever & firing pin safety lever (right side) hardly ever require replacement because they've worn out ... (I've never had one wear out) ... but usually because they were lost during disassembly.
The plunger springs in the slide, under the rear sight, can require replacement when someone removes & re-installs the rear sight base, and the top coil(s) gets bent/clipped by the leading edge of the sight base during reassembly.
I've never had a factory drawbar plunger spring wear out, either, but I've had a reduced power spring wear out and allow Skips-DA to occur.
I've sometimes (not often) come across a weakening firing pin spring.
Never wore out a factory main (hammer) spring.
A mag catch spring can get corroded or rusty if the gun is subjected to the wrong conditions without occasional inspection/service.
The trigger play spring might wear and break at some point, but the gun runs without it (just has some additional slop in the SA trigger). Folks trying to "adjust" it all the time cane break it, though.
The manual safety body plunger & ambi lever plunger springs can become lost during a detailed diassembly (or worse, mixed up, which can cause functioning problems). Never wore any out, but I've lost an occasional ambi lever spring.
Now, mag & recoil springs? I'd keep enough each of the factory springs for periodic replacement/repair.
gtoppcop
Member
Just like Col Colt says, this has been a very good post to read and in my case re-read.
I've had good luck with three parts outlets:
--Numrich (Gun Parts Corp)
--Midway USA (under S&W Auto Pistols [parts that fit multiple models])
--Brownells
I just picked up a 1989-vintage 5906 (old cop's gun) with the square trigger guard and Adjustable sights. I looked in MidwayUSA's website and found many parts were on the shelf.
When I took it apart, I noticed that the recoil spring guide's spring-loaded head is able to turn. Looks like I'll buy the $22 part at MidwayUSA.
The parts are out there. Remember too that a good portion of the common parts for the 5906 (most produced 3rd Gen?) will go onto a 4000/3900/4500/6900-series.
I appreciate the long replies by the Armorers. I have detail-stripped my 4566/4003 to clean them in a hot bath of water and Dial anti-bacterial soap (it does work!). I got them back together without any trouble.
Trouble shooting and diagnosing their issues is something entirely different. I defer the 'hard' stuff to my S&W trained SoCal gunsmith (b. burris handle on the Forum).
One thing that I have learned over the years is to use the Bic pens (with the removable top) to test the firing pin and/or ensuring that the decocker/safety works (the pen flies out of the barrel under FIRE and doesn't move under SAFE/hammer drop).
I must confess that my 4003TSW's (#1 of 2) recent trip to S&W was a wonderful experience. In fact, I have sent the other 4003TSW and 'Mama Bear's' 3914 to them. The 5906 (after she's de-loused and de-horned) will go back to Springfield for her 100K mile rebuild. Now if I could just find another Ed Brown competition safety for the 9mm/40-series guns!
If you want a 5906 (the Volvo 240 of 9mms), go to Buds, Robertsons Trading Post and/or CDNN. They're going for $300-350 depending on shape. GREAT gun!!!
Just my $.02
I've had good luck with three parts outlets:
--Numrich (Gun Parts Corp)
--Midway USA (under S&W Auto Pistols [parts that fit multiple models])
--Brownells
I just picked up a 1989-vintage 5906 (old cop's gun) with the square trigger guard and Adjustable sights. I looked in MidwayUSA's website and found many parts were on the shelf.
When I took it apart, I noticed that the recoil spring guide's spring-loaded head is able to turn. Looks like I'll buy the $22 part at MidwayUSA.
The parts are out there. Remember too that a good portion of the common parts for the 5906 (most produced 3rd Gen?) will go onto a 4000/3900/4500/6900-series.
I appreciate the long replies by the Armorers. I have detail-stripped my 4566/4003 to clean them in a hot bath of water and Dial anti-bacterial soap (it does work!). I got them back together without any trouble.
Trouble shooting and diagnosing their issues is something entirely different. I defer the 'hard' stuff to my S&W trained SoCal gunsmith (b. burris handle on the Forum).
One thing that I have learned over the years is to use the Bic pens (with the removable top) to test the firing pin and/or ensuring that the decocker/safety works (the pen flies out of the barrel under FIRE and doesn't move under SAFE/hammer drop).
I must confess that my 4003TSW's (#1 of 2) recent trip to S&W was a wonderful experience. In fact, I have sent the other 4003TSW and 'Mama Bear's' 3914 to them. The 5906 (after she's de-loused and de-horned) will go back to Springfield for her 100K mile rebuild. Now if I could just find another Ed Brown competition safety for the 9mm/40-series guns!
If you want a 5906 (the Volvo 240 of 9mms), go to Buds, Robertsons Trading Post and/or CDNN. They're going for $300-350 depending on shape. GREAT gun!!!
Just my $.02
Can the mag release spring be replaced without a great deal of disassembly? I don't think I'll get into trying to replace the extractor spring.
Yes. The nut & spring.
Ideally, it involves removing the grips if the mag catch body is being removed (and so the frame can be flat against a hard work surface, to keep the right end of the mag catch body flat while the nut is being installed and adjusted for depth).
However, I've found that with a 3rd gen with factory grips, if you're only replacing the nut and/or spring, putting the gun on its right side and placing a nickel underneath the right end of the mag catch (as a 'spacer' beneath the mag catch) will let you depress the plunger and unscrew the nut (button) ... and then replace them with one or both new ones.
Very good-thanks. I don't know if it will help or not but my 4516-1 seems to be a little reluctant to receive mags fully and you have to rap the bottom to get it to click and stay put. Not knowing the age of this pistol and after encountering that problem I first thought of the spring and since I have one thought of just replacing it. Maybe as 18DAI mentioned, it may be the nature of the compacts. Not having a compact before I don't know. The 4506 mag will fit nicely and click but of course is about 3/4" too long.
Franciscomv
Member
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FM made some pretty good guns back in the day. Both HPs and 1911s. Current production pistols aren't very nicely finished, but they work well and are quite affordable.
German gun companies don't sell weapons to Argentina, I'm not sure why but I think it has to do with some sort of government policy (we're probably considered an unstable country).
Any SIGs or Walthers we get come from the US. The last HK shipment we got was back in the '90s, they're very sought after and fetch premium prices.
Both of my 4513TSW's (original and a new production issued model) require the magazines receiving a firm whack in order to properly seat them. Ditto my 3913, CS9, CS45, 4013TSW and a number of my other makes of pistols. Once they become too easy to insert (with the slide forward) I'd start to wonder whether the mag springs weren't approaching the far end of their useful service life.
The mags I have won't seat with the slide open and mags empty without a whack. That just doesn't seem quite right to me. It's like the height of the plastic base plates are too high and should be shortened about 1/16" or thereabout so the mag will go further up and latch.
Catshooter
Member
FB, I have seen the same thing with dirty weapons. It boggles my tiny little mind that it can happen, but it sure does.
I agree Col, that doesn't sound right. A full mag against a closed slide should give some good resistence.
Take the slide off and see if that changes how the mags feel during seating.
Cat
I agree Col, that doesn't sound right. A full mag against a closed slide should give some good resistence.
Take the slide off and see if that changes how the mags feel during seating.
Cat
Sometimes the ejector lands on the left side of a magazine in such a way that it gives some pressure. (Check the ejector for a normal appearance, meaning not bent or broken, as well as normal movement.)
I'll sometimes have an occasional magazine not quick "click" into the mag well under a locked back slide (meaning no slide resistance) without a little extra pressure. There's a bit of a potential tolerance stack condition that can occur when you consider the interaction of the involved parts ... mag body, mag butt plate, window cutout in mag, mag catch body, frame cut for mag catch body. Especially when you consider the plastic butt plate and how its grooves may slip onto any particular mag body lips.
When I load a magazine I make sure I either press it up into place (when the slide is locked back), or I give a more solid push/whack (slide locked forward). I wouldn't get too "aggressive" and try to forcefully shove the mag up through the grip frame and out the ejection port when the slide is locked back, though, as its possible to exert excessive pressure up against the bottom of the ejector. I watched one guy eventually break off his ejector doing that one day.
I'll sometimes have an occasional magazine not quick "click" into the mag well under a locked back slide (meaning no slide resistance) without a little extra pressure. There's a bit of a potential tolerance stack condition that can occur when you consider the interaction of the involved parts ... mag body, mag butt plate, window cutout in mag, mag catch body, frame cut for mag catch body. Especially when you consider the plastic butt plate and how its grooves may slip onto any particular mag body lips.
When I load a magazine I make sure I either press it up into place (when the slide is locked back), or I give a more solid push/whack (slide locked forward). I wouldn't get too "aggressive" and try to forcefully shove the mag up through the grip frame and out the ejection port when the slide is locked back, though, as its possible to exert excessive pressure up against the bottom of the ejector. I watched one guy eventually break off his ejector doing that one day.
The ejector looks fine-just like the one in my 4506. That one doesn't behave the way this one does in that you will hear a distinct click with the slide closed when inserting the mag and no need to whack the bottom of the mag.
It was very easy to insert the mag with the slide retracted and you could hear/feel the click...not so with the slide forward. I have four mags with the 4516-1 and they all do that.
It was very easy to insert the mag with the slide retracted and you could hear/feel the click...not so with the slide forward. I have four mags with the 4516-1 and they all do that.
Just a little update. I took the 4516-1 out for a first time range visit today and it was as expected. I went though some WWB, GDGHP's(some factory, some my reloads of 7.8 gr of HS-6) and nary a bobble with three mags. I had to take the 4506 as well to keep it company and shot about an equal amount through it. As usual, no problems with it either.
However, I had loaded about 50 lead round nose bullets that have an ogive pretty much like standard hard ball and the same amount of the H&G #68 and it seems the 4516-1 didn't like them at all. After about 2-3 shots I had a FTRTB. I retrieved the round from the chamber and put it in my pocket after looking it over. I experienced the same thing when I put the mag back in and racked the slide. Both times the slide liked about 1/4" going into battery. This also happened with the SWC's. I was a bit baffled. Upon returning home I measured the OAL of both rounds and they always fed in other pistols. Two of the rounds I had in my pocket were 1.255". WWB usually goes about 1.260-1.265" so that didn't make sense. The two that gave a problem(and there were a few others) wouldn't go into the chamber after I took the slide and barrel off. I dropped them into the chamber and they didn't go without just a little push. I checked out each round before today with my case gauge just to be sure if any problem arouse I could eliminate ammo. Something went awry somewhere as if it fit the case gauge, it should have fit the chamber.
At any rate, I'm still chewing on this. I stopped trying to shoot the lead bullets and went back to WWB and shot five more mags with no problems.It's hard to believe it handled the GDHP and some HST's without a problem yet something didn't quite work out with the lead bullets.
However, I had loaded about 50 lead round nose bullets that have an ogive pretty much like standard hard ball and the same amount of the H&G #68 and it seems the 4516-1 didn't like them at all. After about 2-3 shots I had a FTRTB. I retrieved the round from the chamber and put it in my pocket after looking it over. I experienced the same thing when I put the mag back in and racked the slide. Both times the slide liked about 1/4" going into battery. This also happened with the SWC's. I was a bit baffled. Upon returning home I measured the OAL of both rounds and they always fed in other pistols. Two of the rounds I had in my pocket were 1.255". WWB usually goes about 1.260-1.265" so that didn't make sense. The two that gave a problem(and there were a few others) wouldn't go into the chamber after I took the slide and barrel off. I dropped them into the chamber and they didn't go without just a little push. I checked out each round before today with my case gauge just to be sure if any problem arouse I could eliminate ammo. Something went awry somewhere as if it fit the case gauge, it should have fit the chamber.
At any rate, I'm still chewing on this. I stopped trying to shoot the lead bullets and went back to WWB and shot five more mags with no problems.It's hard to believe it handled the GDHP and some HST's without a problem yet something didn't quite work out with the lead bullets.
Sounds like an issue with the sizing of the lead reloads. Wouldn't be the first time a "generous" case gauge disagreed with a barrel chamber that might be on the "tighter" end of the normal tolerance spec.
How old is the brass?
How old is the brass?
The case gauge gave all the go ahead and that's why I was surprised things didn't go so well. I have the bullets sized to .452"-same as for the other 45's. the brass was mixed...some new Starline and some twice fired.
If the rounds aren't going into the barrel chamber without resistance, just under the force of gravity (with barrel removed from slide), it would seem likely that either some of the rounds weren't sized as well as the "gauge" might think, or else you've got something stuck to the chamber wall?
Also, in an occasional older 3rd gen we used to take a "finishing" chamber reamer to lightly clean up any high spots in the chamber. This sometimes revealed high spots, too. We cleaned up a few "tight" chambers that way. Obviously, this isn't something that someone ought to attempt without some understanding of how to properly do it so damage isn't done to the chamber shoulders & barrel leade. Barrels aren't inexpensive.
Also, in an occasional older 3rd gen we used to take a "finishing" chamber reamer to lightly clean up any high spots in the chamber. This sometimes revealed high spots, too. We cleaned up a few "tight" chambers that way. Obviously, this isn't something that someone ought to attempt without some understanding of how to properly do it so damage isn't done to the chamber shoulders & barrel leade. Barrels aren't inexpensive.
I think the gauge lied to me. I distinctly remember a couple nights back taking each of the rounds and dropping them into the gauge and all but a couple dropped flush. the other two I sit aside and they didn't go today. Maybe seating the bullet about .005 deeper might help.
I distinctly remember a couple nights back taking each of the rounds and dropping them into the gauge and all but a couple dropped flush. the other two I sit aside and they didn't go today. Maybe seating the bullet about .005 deeper might help.Catshooter
Member
Col,
Your problem is well known to those of us who reload SWC bullets in the 45 auto.
Most 45 chambers (and the Smith's are no exception) have a throat so short it might as well not exist. What that means is that if there is much more than about .020 of bullet that is bore size or bigger that protrudes from the case mouth at all it will hit the rifling.
I shoot alot of Keith's bullets in my 45s and I have to be careful with all of them on how far out the front driving band sits from the case mouth. I stick to .020 as a max and that length is trouble free in all my 45s.
Fastbolt is right (of course) that gravity is all that should be needed to get a round fully chambered in a barrel. Anything else is asking for trouble.
Hope this helps.
Cat
Your problem is well known to those of us who reload SWC bullets in the 45 auto.
Most 45 chambers (and the Smith's are no exception) have a throat so short it might as well not exist. What that means is that if there is much more than about .020 of bullet that is bore size or bigger that protrudes from the case mouth at all it will hit the rifling.
I shoot alot of Keith's bullets in my 45s and I have to be careful with all of them on how far out the front driving band sits from the case mouth. I stick to .020 as a max and that length is trouble free in all my 45s.
Fastbolt is right (of course) that gravity is all that should be needed to get a round fully chambered in a barrel. Anything else is asking for trouble.
Hope this helps.
Cat
