Double Rifles - a True Addiction

[Art Doc]

Doubles are fun but out of my league. I have only one. I bought it 35 years ago for $1700 (a lot of money for used rifle in 1977). I can snipe soft drink cans at 25 yards with ease. A recent group shot while doing load development ran 1.5" at 50 yards with 2 left and 2 right.

This rifle was sold new in 1910. Retail price was $75 (recall that a new Triple Lock was $19 a few years later). The original owner was a prince from the royal family of Afghanistan. In 1920 it was returned for consignment sale. It was sold to the man who would become Ian Flemming's father in law. Flemming wrote the 007 James Bond books, if you didn't know. Rather tenuous celebrity connections, but there you go. The factory said they lost track of the rifle from that point until I contacted them in the 1990s.

 

[CptCurl]

Mr. Saxon (I will not insult a man with a fine double rifle),

Nice double! Do you shoot it often? Do you load for it? Which .375 round is it chambered for? Maybe you should photograph it and post a new thread.

Thanks for posting,

 

[Art Doc]

Shoot it when I can. I think you pretty much have to load for this one as ammo is long out of print as far as I know. As the caption in the photo indicates the caliber 375 Nitro Express (375x2.5"). Bertram makes these cases but the price is ghastly and the quality even worse. I currently use reformed and trimmed 405 Winchester brass by Hornaday. I just do casual shooting with it so I load mostly lead bullets or some 270 grain FMJs that I got cheap from dealer clearance a few years back.

I have read this caliber was popular in India for tiger hunting back in the day. Here's a photo of a loaded round.

 

[Texas Star]

Dear Mr. Curl reading your posts about those fantastic rifles and particulary "The Automatic" in cal. 450/400, it came to my mind that Jim Corbett mentioned he used a rifle in that caliber to bring down several man eatin tigers in India around 1930 or so.Do you have any information regarding which rifle he used?
And congratulations on your great collection of double rifles, regards, Ray.

Ray-

If you read all of his books, you'll find that Jim Corbett used several double rifles. One of his favorites was indeed a .450/.400, but it was a newer rifle than those seen here, a normal boxlock design, by, I think W.J. Jeffery & Co. Not sure of the maker. It is now in the Elmer Keith gun collection somewhere in Idaho. I have seen photos. Keith said that he bought the rifle after Corbett's death in 1955. Jim died in Kenya, having had to leave India after Independence in 1947, due to racial and political friction there.

The gun is a typical hammerless ejector rifle like that associated with white hunters, and was in a caliber popular for hunting tigers and other large Indian game. It is not a more expensive sidelock action (if the pictures I saw were clear enough to tell) but was a high grade gun from a famous maker, and a very good value for money. It was pretty costly for a rifle even then.

Corbett also used at least two .275 rifles, a Rigby and a Westley Richards. These, of course, were built on Mauser actions. He often carried these even for tigers, because they were lighter, and he walked many miles on foot in quest of those man-eaters! (He carried his own rifle, not using a gunbearer.) One of the .275's (7mm) rifles was a gift from the Government on his killing of an especially nasty tiger that had consumed many humans.

BTW, I haven't forgotten your question about buying .22 ammo in the USA if you visit. I just haven't found the right answer yet. I'll PM when I find some official who knows the facts.

T-Star

 

[CptCurl]

Shoot it when I can. I think you pretty much have to load for this one as ammo is long out of print as far as I know. As the caption in the photo indicates the caliber 375 Nitro Express (375x2.5"). Bertram makes these cases but the price is ghastly and the quality even worse. I currently use reformed and trimmed 405 Winchester brass by Hornaday. I just do casual shooting with it so I load mostly lead bullets or some 270 grain FMJs that I got cheap from dealer clearance a few years back.

I have read this caliber was popular in India for tiger hunting back in the day. Here's a photo of a loaded round.

That's the round I thought it was. A great cartridge and better than the old .38-55.

Kynoch loads that round now, if you can stomach close to $10.00 per round.

Nice rifle. You have a good one for sure.

 

[CptCurl]

Nothin' to it.

It's gotta be a lot of fun to shoot those old boomers--if you ever video a range session, please let us know if you post it on Youtube.

Here is a video of me firing an Alexander Henry 8 bore double rifle. The rifle weighs over 16 pounds, but it's a handful when you pull the trigger.

https://youtu.be/7dubLXF8xzc

Now watch the same video in slow motion:

https://youtu.be/TYuNQk7fiX0

It hurts to watch! Notice the cartridges in the foreground, between the camera and my right elbow.

Remember, an 8 bore rifle is not your normal double rifle.

Curl

 

[the ringo kid]

A stunning collection sir. I wonder what most of these sold for new?

 

[Cooter Brown]

Glad I swung by and saw this. Thanks for posting it!

Cpt., you couldn't pay me to shoot that gun off a bench and you'd have to pay up front for me to shoot it offhand.

Using my handy sliderule I calculate that an 8 bore ball of pure lead weighs two ounces.

What in the world was the projectile weight on those artillery shells you were launching out of that rifle?

 

[opoefc]

Great thread, just stumbled across it today. Not to hijack this thread, but I need parts for a Colt Double rifle. 45-70 cal. I have the action only., sans firing pins. The Colt Double barrel shotguns ( same era ) use many of the same parts, if you have a junker shotgun. Appreciate any leads. Thanks, Ed.

 

[RobertJ.]

I feel like I've just been to a museum!

Thank you for posting! The double rifle is one of the most interesting firearms, and I know next to nothing about them. True works of art that are capable of taking down the biggest animals.

My wife asks me why I'm on this forum so much. I always tell her that besides the entertainment, I learn new stuff every day!

 

[RTILSON]

Thanks for resurrecting this thread. Missed it the first time around. All I can say is Wow!

 

[CptCurl]

***

What in the world was the projectile weight on those artillery shells you were launching out of that rifle?

The load that day was a 1250 grain paper patched conical bullet over 9 drams (246 grains) of black powder.

The 1250 grain bullet translates to 2.857 ounces.

Here's a photo of one of the bullets sitting beside a .303 British cartridge for scale:

By the way, that rifle is not mine. It belongs to a friend who lives in Fredericksburg, VA. The other rifles I have displayed here are mine.

Curl

 

[Leonard]

A Rigby side lock and an Army Navy box lock both are in 470 I have owned a number of English doubles over the years but even better have hunted with them almost exclusively. They are not only beautifully made guns but very functional when used for what they were designed for.

 

[.455Eley]

Oh Man! Those Purdey .500 BPEs are the stuff dreams are made of! You can just imagine yourself stalking some horrible man-eating beast through the Velt in the Cape Colony or the bush in British East. Not to mention popping a zeppelin over London on a dark cloudy night.

 

[CptCurl]

That Rigby rising bite is a marvelous rifle. I'm green.

Curl

 

[Leonard]

That Rigby rising bite is a marvelous rifle. I'm green.

Curl

You have nothing to be green about your collection is fantastic i am sorry I sold so many off over the last 30 years.

My most unique was a White Hunter model Westley Richards 577 documented and owned by a poacher

 

[DocB]

Amazing stuff and all I have is one old German Collath drilling. I had to manufacture ammunition for it, but haven't shot it in years. It is pretty cool and has wild pigs and birds and deer running all over it. They spent a lot of time back then with really heavy engraving.

 

[les.b]

CptCurl: I missed this thread until today. Thank you for sharing your passion with us all. The rifles that you have pictured here are absolutely exquisite!! What works of art! And of the pinnacle of fine craftsmanship.

Also, I am going to keep this thread bookmarked, and any time that my better half questions my purchase of a new snub nose, when I already have dozens, I can show her where fate might have taken me!!!

Truly a unique and splendid collection. And you shoot them also!!

 

[Cooter Brown]

Curl

Well, that answers all my questions. There are times in life when it's best to be an observer.

Any idea of the velocity of that cannonball? A previously noted I have a sliderule and would be happy to calculate the recoil impulse. Though you probably don't want to know.

 

[CptCurl]

I was just trying to remember if I have posted my little .360 Rigby. It fits into this group of antiques, but I didn't have it when I posted this thread. I checked under my "statistics" and found that I did post it back in January of 2013. It really ought to be in this thread with the other antiques.

Here it is:

And here is its thread:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/287266-john-rigby-co-360-bpe-15093-a.html

All of these originally were posted to the "Lounge". I think that was before we had "Firearms & Knives - Other Brands". They have slowly been moved to this forum, however. I apologize to the Mods and Admins for this trouble.

Curl