treerat
Member
can you use 45 acp WITHOUT moon clips in a 625 smith? is the chamber so designed to headspace off the mouth of the case or the moon clip?
stupid question about 625
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diamonback68
US Veteran
Yup, just carry a pencil or a 1/4" wooden dowel works good too.
45Wheelgun
Member
This is true with 625-3's but at some point it stops being true. I'm just not sure which dash number it is. So not all 625's can be shot without moonclips.
I could be mistaken but I believe all modern S&W .45 ACP revolvers headspace on the case mouth, probably from after WWII on, and likely some time before that. All my .45s, including a 1955 Target from 1956, headspace on the case mouth.
I had a model 625-8 that would fail to fire without moon clips.
It was hit or miss whether they they would fire or not. I never shoot factory ammo and some of the problem could have been my reloads. Maybe different brass length. I never judge a gun shooting less than factory ammo.
It was hit or miss whether they they would fire or not. I never shoot factory ammo and some of the problem could have been my reloads. Maybe different brass length. I never judge a gun shooting less than factory ammo.
Coastie762
US Veteran
My 5-screw 1955 Target has chambers properly cut to permit firing .45 ACP cases without moon clips; as noted above they just need to be picked or pushed out separately.
My recently purchased 625-8 has chambers cut too deep to allow this. I checked with a .45 ACP case, the chambers were cut so deep that I do not think the firing pin would hit the primer. Luckily it fires just fine with moon clips or .45 AR brass...
My recently purchased 625-8 has chambers cut too deep to allow this. I checked with a .45 ACP case, the chambers were cut so deep that I do not think the firing pin would hit the primer. Luckily it fires just fine with moon clips or .45 AR brass...
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sixpointfive
US Veteran
I always shoot 625-8 without moon clips. Just tip the gun up and the cases fall out, the ones that don't I use my finger nail to easily remove them. When I am shooting I see no reason to load moon clips, shoot, then unload moon clips just to load another and so on. Just load the gun directly, shoot empy and reload the gun. I find the moon clips just a pain in the rear.
All the older 25-2's I have shot will fire without clips.
My 325 NG will shoot most of the time without clips with Remington 230 Golden Saber or 230gr Ball. However with most other ammo it will not shoot at all with out the clips...
My 325 NG will shoot most of the time without clips with Remington 230 Golden Saber or 230gr Ball. However with most other ammo it will not shoot at all with out the clips...
scooter123
Member
That is because you don't have ENOUGH moon clips. I would recomend having a minimum of 30 moon clips on hand and 60 is even better. When you hit the range with 180-300 rounds pre-loaded in clips you can shoot until the cylinder is too hot to touch without gloves. BTW, I find that particular problem starts to become noticeable at about the 180 round mark, thus my recomendation for a minimum of 30 clips.
BTW, like you when I shoot without using the clips with my 625-8 all I have to is point the barrel up and give the gun a firm shake. I'm not sure how my cylinder was machined but I suspect that it may have been ECM machined because it was totally free or any trace of a tool mark out of the box.
David Sinko
Member
It seems the "We'll build the best 625 possible, bar none" mentality stopped with the -4. Shortly thereafter they adopted the "Hey, we'll shortcut this thing as much as possible and the gunwriters will continue to promote it as being the same and most customers are too dumb to know the difference" mentality. This is also the same time that they switched to the frame mounted firing pin on all their revolvers. My 627 with the frame mounted firing pin functions perfectly so I will not condemn that concept in and of itself, but once you stop boring the cylinder properly you run into all sorts of trouble. Add CA compliance to the equation and you end up with a less than satisfactory product, at least as far as the 625 is concerned.
Dave Sinko
Dave Sinko
Dale53
Member
Dave;
I'm not sure I agree with you as to "why" they quit headspacing on the case mouth.
For some reason, someone in authority at S&W, thought that they would be better served by use of a conventional ball seat. My 625-6 Model of 1989 and my Model 625-8 (JM Special) are two of the most accurate revolvers I have used (and that is a bushel basket of revolvers). They are MUCH more accurate than some of the 1917's I have used in the past.
I have no opinion as to whether or not it's BECAUSE of or in SPITE of the new ball seat, but I have no problems with using moon clips with .45 ACP's. If I wish to bypass the use of the clips, I just simply grab a bag of .45 Auto Rims as I head for the range.
Personally, I consider it a non-issue. I certainly do NOT consider the late model 625's to be less than satisfactory IN ANY WAY (emphasis intended).
FWIW
Dale53
I'm not sure I agree with you as to "why" they quit headspacing on the case mouth.
For some reason, someone in authority at S&W, thought that they would be better served by use of a conventional ball seat. My 625-6 Model of 1989 and my Model 625-8 (JM Special) are two of the most accurate revolvers I have used (and that is a bushel basket of revolvers). They are MUCH more accurate than some of the 1917's I have used in the past.
I have no opinion as to whether or not it's BECAUSE of or in SPITE of the new ball seat, but I have no problems with using moon clips with .45 ACP's. If I wish to bypass the use of the clips, I just simply grab a bag of .45 Auto Rims as I head for the range.
Personally, I consider it a non-issue. I certainly do NOT consider the late model 625's to be less than satisfactory IN ANY WAY (emphasis intended).
FWIW
Dale53
Jerry N.
Member
I have a 625PC and while I'm no expert, looking at the cylinder, there is a ring that looks like it would catch the rim of the case. I will try tomorrow at the range. I would think that if it doesn't fire it's because the firing pin is not the longer one that's available.
Associated with this issue of not firing without moonclips in a dash 8,
I am experiencing recoil pulling with all factory loads. If I shoot 3 of the
6 rnds in the moonclip the other 3 cartridges start getting longer.
My groups start to widen on the last 3 shots.
Is this recoil pulling normal? It has never pulled far enough to jam
up the cylinder.
I am experiencing recoil pulling with all factory loads. If I shoot 3 of the
6 rnds in the moonclip the other 3 cartridges start getting longer.
My groups start to widen on the last 3 shots.
Is this recoil pulling normal? It has never pulled far enough to jam
up the cylinder.
I bought a 625-2 in 2009. I had two full-moon clips that I used. These ended up getting lost. Since then I have fired the revolver without clips. Results have been fully excellent... perfect ignition, excellent on target accuracy. Empty casing have been easily ejected from the cylinder by a simple flip of the fingernail. Even steel cased Tula ammo has been easy to remove. I've not ever had to resort to a pencil or any other such tool. YMMV. Sincerely. brucev.
Dale53
Member
I can only speculate since I shoot nothing but reloads in my guns. I do NOT have that problem, even with 250 gr Keith bullets at 900+ fps (chronographed). The heavy bullet loads have a proper crimp groove and I use a medium roll crimp on those.
My standard target loads are 4.0 grs of Bullseye or equivalent with a 200 gr Mihec clone of the H&G #68 SWC. I wouldn't expect those to be a problem. I taper crimp to .470" at the outside diameter of the mouth of the case. Further, my dies give me adequate case neck tension (both case neck tension AND proper crimping play a part in proper operation).
It seems to me that you have an ammo problem. I cannot think of anything regarding the revolver that could/would cause this to happen. I think a change of ammo is in order.
Dale53
There isn't any other major brand from the US to try.
I did try reloaded lead from someone that is, in his group, considered
an expert gunsmith and re-loader. His ammo pulled also.
It has been frustrating, I can use 1/3 moonclips one at a time and not get pulling.
Has anyone actually checked, ie shoot 4 or 5 rds and looked at the and measured the remaining 1 or 2 rnds?
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