9mm Accuracy
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dannybot
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In theory, with 115 gr FMJ, you'll be 0.2" above zero. But the key, even on sand bags, will be sight alignment and trigger control.
Nakanokalronin
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Not sure about the long, but according to the S&W tech I talked to, the FS models are supposed to get 3" groups at 25 yards.
1sailor
Member
From my own experience with my FS I would guess that the 9L should be able to do at least a little better than 3" which I am getting pretty consistantly.
Titegroups
Member
3" typical accuracy for plastic guns. They ain't target pistols. Been many cases of people reporting poor accuracy with the 9mm versions if that's where this is going. If you're new to shooting it may be you not the gun. Have someone whos a known good shot give it a try first.
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silentflyer
Member
If it's accuracy you want get a K38..
photoman
Member
The average shooter would be darn lucky to shoot a 12" group at 25 yards shooting off hand. If the M&P will mechanically shoot a 3" group at 25 yards, then the point is moot.
RobsTV
Member
Wow. You sure you don't mean at 50 yards with a 5" barrel like original poster has?
When I take someone new to shoot, we only shoot at the 25 yard targets. Some are paper, some are 8" metal plates. The shooters don't know any better. So within a few magazines, they do indeed get better than 12" groups. 4" to 8" groups at 25 yards is about how an average shooter with a decent handgun should shoot off hand once they are comfortable with it. If sub 8" groups are unusual, then I would get another gun. A person that is halfway good should easily get 3" to 4" groups at 25 yards.
I suppose if it is a snubnose, or if all someone knows is 7 yards as a max, then I could see issues. But if you tell someone 25 yards is normal, never saw anyone not make it work for them.
S&W owners manual shows they certify that all barrels less than 3" will have an average accuracy of 6.3" at 21 yards (from a rest), and they go on to say that your gun may be better than the certification test guns.
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danysw
Member
Then I must be the worst shooter in the world!!!! Getting 4" groups at 25 yards off hand for me is almost impossible to do. On rest I can get 3" easily and FYI I've been shooting for more than 20 years.
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photoman
Member
It sounds like you are a really good teacher.
I spend a lot of time at public shooting ranges and I assure you there are darn few people out there that can shoot a 4" group at 25 yards offhand. Most people I see at the public ranges can't even shoot a 12" group at five or ten yards!
mlapaglia
Member
Good teacher must be the ticket. I had a good teacher and with my 9FS I can do 2.5" groups at 25 yards all day long. My sons that I taught the same way I was can do 2" groups at 25 yards. #1 son can also do 2.5" groups with weak hand. I will admit to having had the barrel replaced from S&W for lock up issues. But we can all shoot well with the 9C and 9 Shield. #1 son shoots Glock G-19 just as well and a G-34 sub 2" at 25 yards but thats designed to be a more accurate gun.
IF you cant do at least 4" groups at 25 yards find a good teacher. Its worth the time and money.
FYI, I do not consider myself a great shot. not bad, but not a great shot.
-M
danysw
Member
A 4" target at 25 yards looks way smaller than the front sight dot of any handgun. Getting 5 holes on it off hand for me is a great chanlege.
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yaaa, I don't think your average yoko shooter, that would be me is going to shoot a 3" group off-hand at 25yds.. I think it's like drag racing... every kid or guy with a street car runs 9 seconds in the 1\4 mile....
or so they say... 
or so they say...
RobsTV
Member
It must have a lot to do with mental ability. A year ago I purchased my first gun, and at 51 years old with aging eyes, I think I do pretty well. But no one told me I had to shoot at 10 yards or less. So I trained off hand at 25 and 50 yards. So to me, these things are what is normal, and I thought normal for most people. Guess not here. But a quick read at other forums has many having the same type of results fairly easily. Sub 4" at 25 yards off hand. But many at other sites also do not have accuracy. That's why I think mental ability might play a big roll. I never could understand a "rule" that most only need 10 feet accuracy in a carry weapon. I sure wish I had 30+ yards on one trip where a car attacked our motorcycle.
Here was the second 8 round magazine I ever fired in a Hi-Point C9 9mm recently at 25 yards. The target has a green 4" diameter ring that is easy to see at 25 yards even with old eyes. I actually shoot with 1.25 reading glasses to see the sights and target clearer.
EDIT: Sorry, I left out an important fact. I slug barrel and cast my own bullets sized to fit in reload process on all rounds we shoot. This might cut group size in half? Sorry for the omission.
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That largely depends upon your ability to perform a smooth, controlled trigger stroke multiple times. It's possible to screw up groups by poor trigger control in a Ransom (machine) Rest, much less hand held in sandbags.
I would guesstimate 3 inches or better at 25 yards. I've done 5-6 inches at 50 yards a few times from prone. I'll note that round nose ball ammo generally isn't noted for it's grouping ability. JHP or truncated cone ammo tends to be more inherently accurate.
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team sidewinder
Member
I never worry what my 9mms ( S&W shield & Sig. 229R ) group at 25 yards as self defense situations almost always occur closer than 25 yards anyway and happen more like 25 feet. I wonder how hard it is to prove in a court of law that you deem a life threating self defense shooting when you start shooting 25 yards away. 10 yard groups is what you should be worring about and practicing at.
1sailor
Member
Fortunately, most of us will never have to fire our M&P's in a self defense situation. I have asked the same question as the OP regarding other pistols and have often received several answers telling me that anything over about 20ft doesn't matter. However, for those of us who just enjoy shooting, accuracy at 25 yards can be an important consideration.
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