Psychiatric Commitment Data Question

[SanJoseScott]

Wow....just wow. Force multiplier using empowerment of physicians who despite their education truly don't have a clue. Your writing about your experiences picked the scab off some long forgotten sores (sorry about the visual).

Jennifer, keep posting please!

 

[JenniferG]

Thanks Scott, I truly believe that psychiatric terms and definitions can easily be used against anyone that they want. The mental health community can be used as weapon and it has been in the past. In the past if you were someone that stood in the way or could expose a politician's corruption you could easily be branded mentally ill and institutionalized. Once those people brand you it's very difficult if not impossible to shake that.

The courts closed down huge numbers of mental institutions during the 1970's and 80's. They let people out onto the street that couldn't take care of themselves. The people that were supposed to be responsible for taking care of these unfortunate people abused them and tortured them and completely ignored the public trust in them to take care of those unfortunate individuals.

None of those in the mental health community that were responsible for those abuses were ever held to answer for that. The courts closed those places down and opened the doors and let those poor people out onto the street to fend for themselves.

To now let those same mental health professionals into the firearms debate would be a huge mistake. Please don't be calling in an entity that has proved itself time and time again over the years to be just as dangerous as the disease it's supposed to cure.

Don't believe for one second when the gun grabbers see the potential in the abuse of that weapon they won't use it. They have in the past and will do it again if they think it will work.

 

[Doc Nonverbal]

I absolutely agree that the potential for abuse of mental health commitments could have an extremely detrimental impact upon legal gun owners. For example, if they extend the definition of "commitment" from a 72 hour hold (which can only be initiated by a professional) to a 24 hour hold (which can be initiated by anyone), I could see people defining the presence of a firearm as being a danger to others.

For example, I once did an assessment on a patient who was placed on a 72 hour commitment by her psychiatrist because she missed too many appointments (no SI/HI/Grave disability). It's a mad, mad, mad world.

Now with Obamacare, Physicians are going to be asking about guns in the home. It's already standard procedure for Pediatricians, which is patently absurd given that firearm accidents are in miniscule proportion to things like falling down stairs, falling out of bed, etc.

 

[mountaingun629]

Doc Nonverbal,
Quote:

"For example, I once did an assessment on a patient who was placed on a 72 hour commitment by her psychiatrist because she missed too many appointments...."

Is there any way to get a record of that kind removed, or is the person permanently saddled with it?

Also, these records are not "court" records are they unless they were used in some court proceeding?

What I am getting at is the general assumption that a person has to be declared "unfit" or committed by a court order before it would show up in a NICS check.

Myron

 

[Doc Nonverbal]

Doc Nonverbal,
Quote:

"For example, I once did an assessment on a patient who was placed on a 72 hour commitment by her psychiatrist because she missed too many appointments...."

Is there any way to get a record of that kind removed, or is the person permanently saddled with it?

Also, these records are not "court" records are they unless they were used in some court proceeding?

What I am getting at is the general assumption that a person has to be declared "unfit" or committed by a court order before it would show up in a NICS check.

Myron

Hi Myron,

I'm not sure what it would take to get records like that removed. The way I understand it, criminal records can be expunged and the records of minors can be sealed, but we're stuck with our medical records.

In that particular case, I called the on-call Psychiatrist, explained the situation, and the patient was free to go.

You bring up an excellent question though: Would the commitment have been reported to NICS regardless of the disposition of the patient? I'd like to learn more about who does the reporting to NICS for mental health, what criteria are used, and how consistently those criteria are applied from State to State.


David

 

[mountaingun629]

David,
I have read repeatedly that a court finding of incompetence is supposed to show up in the NICS checks, but what about the Medical Privacy act aspect of it? I doubt many of these have actually been reported at all.

And is a 72 hour hold even reported to the court system at all?

Myron

 

[SanJoseScott]

You can almost paint the picture coming up. A person who owns more that <insert a number here> guns and/or more than <insert a number> rounds of ammunition is suffering from a mental disorder and would be subject to rejection of further applications for gun ownership

 

[LoboGunLeather]

We saw something similar in the old Soviet Union. Anyone who expressed any displeasure with their "workers' paradise" was obviously in need of psychiatric treatment. Essentially, psychiatric hospitals were used to confine political prisoners.

The operative issues arise in the wording of the question on the Form 4473, which asks whether or not a person has ever been adjudicated mentally incompetent. This requires a judicial process, not a medical decision. The open-ended question arises after the commitment has been lifted, the person restored to sufficient sanity that he no longer poses a threat to self or others, however appears to be barred from acquiring firearms due to the fact of the adjudication commencing the confinement and treatment.

RE: PTSD in veterans, it is my understanding that our VA has been reporting all of those treated for PTSD, resulting in denials during the background investigation process. As I understand it, this resulted from an executive order by former President Clinton during the 1990's.

 

[donniedee]

im in law enforcemenet as well as mental health field laws are alrteady non the books if a person has been committed into a mental ward which means past the hearing there considered committed and can no longer own or buy guns.
there needs to be a link between the committments and the back ground checks which as of right now nothing shows up on there i do not think a vol admittance for help would count

 

[darmtn1917]

Here's a interesting point - hording is a "mental disorder" Think about it