Dryfiring - OK for rimfires?

[Joewisc]

Someone please settle this ongoing debate: whether it's OK to dry fire a .22 or any other rimfire handgun or rifle. I bought a new Ruger 10/22, which I dryfired a few times in the store before taking it home. The trigger mechanism was FUBARed before I had a chance to fire one round. Took it back to the LGS, who insisted it was because I dryfired it. He then took it apart and blamed a "popped" spring for the malfunction.

I then spoke to a veteran gunsmith who has worked on Ruger 10/22's and others who told me it was perfectly OK to dry-fire them. Told the LGS owner and he disagreed.

I also have a S&W 617 10-shot, which I don't dryfire because I've seen evidence that it can damage the cylinder. Being a revolver maybe apples and oranges with the 10/22.

Anyway, if someone can clear this up I'd appreciate it.

 

[chief38]

I do not own a Ruger 10/22, however I just did a trigger job on one and in the manual it did say it was OK to dry fire. That said, I keep that practice to a minimum and usually will put a spent cartridge in the chamber when doing so repeatedly.

 

[straightshooter1]

On, at least, older rimfire revolver, the firing pin can strike the cylinder if there is no rim of the cartridge to stop it. This results, if done too much, in what is often called peening and may affect the function as the cartridge, when loaded, may not be perfectly snug against the rim.

I have heard that newer guns do not do that. Sadly, I don't have any newer guns (feel free to send me some to test) so I don't know if this is true.

Also, I must admit I have never owned a rimfire gun which has been dry-fired enough to cause peening.

I just don't dry-fire a rimfire gun of any type.

Bob

 

[Joewisc]

I do not own a Ruger 10/22, however I just did a trigger job on one and in the manual it did say it was OK to dry fire. That said, I keep that practice to a minimum and usually will put a spent cartridge in the chamber when doing so repeatedly.

I have the manual and read it a few times cover to cover but don't see a reference to dryfiring. Can you give me the page number if possible? Thanks.

 

[NFrameFred]

I personally adopted the practice years ago of never dry firing a rimfire gun. Having said that, there are a few I have seen designed to minimize and prevent damage to the firing pin by a cut/indentation in the breech face to allow the firing pin portion that strikes the rim of the cartridge to come to rest when the chamber is empty without contacting the breech face. The downside to this design is it must allow for a longer than necessary length of travel for the firing pin and in some designs is thought to be responsible for the stressing and breaking of the pin. Probably due more to poor material treating than anything else but the combination of the two does sometimes produce that result.

 

[hsguy]

Page 20 of the manual:

8. With the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, push the safety to the “off”
position and pull the trigger to decock it. The rifle can be “dry fired” for
practice as long as it is empty and pointed in a safe direction.

 

[chief38]

Joewisc:

I do not have the manual as I do not own a Ruger 10/22. I looked at it prior to working on the trigger of a friends new take-down version of the 10/22. Quite honestly, I was actually surprised when I read that too! I am well aware that dry firing most Rimfire's is a no no.

Chief38

 

[Joewisc]

Page 20 of the manual:

8. With the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, push the safety to the “off”
position and pull the trigger to decock it. The rifle can be “dry fired” for
practice as long as it is empty and pointed in a safe direction.

By gosh, John, word for word although on Page 19 of my manual. I read right over it. Thanks for the reference.

 

[labworm]

Ruger SP 101 .22 8 rounds
Manual says OK to dry fire
S&W 63 No can do

I say don't dry fire any .22

 

[125JHP]

Why would it make any difference if it was a revolver or new gun?

Except for special designs as mentioned above, and not differentiating between action types, for most guns, the chamber is basically reamed the same for all of them. Whether the rim is recessed or not, the firing pin still has to strike it in the same general area with the same general force and it will crush the rim about the same amount.

If there really is a potential for the firing pin to hit the breech face and peen the metal (if no case rim is present), it should be similar in all of them due to standard chamber specs. The only factor I can think of that would prevent that from being common across the board, is manufacturing tolerances present in a particular example or if it really is not a problem to begin with.

I have heard it said all my life to not dry fire a rim-fire (without snap caps or a fired case in the hole).

Now perhaps it really is a throwback to older days when some manufacturing products were not as precise and it was a problem for enough cheap guns that a general rule was devised. With revolvers, maybe the problem shows up if the cylinder timing is off. With rifles and semis maybe it was poor design, workmanship or tolerances.

Can you really tell which is good to dry fire and which is not? What if you decide it is ok and get in the habit of doing it and then one day screw up a friends family heirloom ... you gonna pay for that one? Why take the chance to bugger it up, take the time to be careful with your gear and learn to use snap caps as a habit.

 

[Joewisc]

Why would it make any difference if it was a revolver or new gun?

The chamber is basically reamed the same for all of them. Whether the rim is recessed or not, the firing pin still has to strike it in the same general area with the same general force and it will crush the rim about the same amount.

If there really is a potential for the firing pin to hit the breech face and peen the metal (if no case rim is present), it should be similar in all of them due to standard chamber specs. The only factor I can think of that would prevent that from being common across the board is manufacturing tolerances present in a particular example or if it is not a problem to begin with.

I have hear it said all my life to not dry fire a rimfire (without snap caps or a fired case in the hole).

Now perhaps it really is a throwback to older days when some manufacturing products were not as precise and it was a problem for enough cheap guns that a general rule was devised. With revolvers, maybe the problem shows up if the cylinder timing is off. With rifles and semis maybe it was poor design, workmanship or tolerances.

Can you really tell which is good to dry fire and which is not? What if you decide it is ok and get in the habit of doing it and then one day screw up a friends family heirloom ... you gonna pay for that one? Why take the chance to bugger it up, take the time to be careful with your gear and learn to use snap caps as a habit.

You make some valid points but if Ruger says it's OK on a 10/22 then I have to take their word. I suppose the lesson is that it's OK on some .22's but not all.

 

[gm272gs]

...I personally adopted the practice years ago of never dry firing a rimfire gun...

Me too, although most of them say in the manual that you can dry fire them. I have always maintained that with a semi-auto, you could pull the bolt handle back a bit before you de-cock it. It will still dry fire, but the firing pin doesn't contact anything but air. You can't possibly ever have a negligent discharge this way, either. I do this with my M&P 15-22, and my Ruger 10/22s, all the time. I cannot however, do it with my Ruger MKII pistol. The bolt on that has to be all the way forward in battery, before the trigger will engage the sear. My rule with revolvers that have firing pins on the hammers, is to never dry-fire them. Revolvers with flat hammers that engage a transfer bar, are another thing entirely. You can dry-fire those all day long.

 

[2152hq]

Design tolerances are supposed to be such that the tip of the rim fire firing pin falls a couple of .000" short of the chamber/bbl face when in the fired position.
That elliminates the possibility of the chamber edge being damaged in dry firing.

A few things that may occur though...

>Manufacturing tolerances go slightly out of spec and allow the situation to happen on a new assembly.

>Wear and/or abuse allow for the out of spec tolerance to be reached and the damage occurs in dry firing.

>The firing pin itself is such that it just can't take repeated dry firing (unsupported) and it fails.
This has nothing to do with the problem above.
This is a design and/or material problem of the firing pin itself.
The primed case or snap cap acts as a shock absorber to the front end of the firing pin as it's driven forward. With out it, the pin fractures somewhere in it's structure from absorbing the stress.
The CZ52 firing pin quickly come to mind as being in this catagory,,both material and design.

I've seen Ruger 10-22's w/a damaged chamber edge from the firing pin striking it. That's not supposed to happen in the Ruger (or their semi auto pistol either) the way it's designed.
Ruger was very proud of that design feature and their ability to hold the tolerance necessary in assembly line mfg'rd parts.
It just doesn't always happen (anymore). Nothing's a sure bet. Some are better than others of course.

A firing pin can break even w/a snap cap or live round in front of it.
But the chances of damaging a rimfire chamber edge if you don't dry fire it are just about zero.

 

[USAF385]

Here is the .22lr cylinder of an off brand .22lr / .22mag that I acquired for a few bucks... It was dry fired a lot as you can see.



After some TLC I have it running fine.. In fact it's one of my favorite plinkers now!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk... So please forgive any ridiculous typing errors.

 

[venomballistics]

general rule .... no.
many, if not most rimfires have firing pins that can strike the chamber face.
this hammering action can cause displaced steel to intrude upon the chamber area eventually causing feeding problems and perhaps even AD issues.

 

[handejector]

I have always maintained that with a semi-auto, you could pull the bolt handle back a bit before you de-cock it. It will still dry fire, but the firing pin doesn't contact anything but air. You can't possibly ever have a negligent discharge this way, either.

If you CLEARED the gun, OK.
I'm sure you meant you checked it first.

If not, I would not bet my life, or anyone else's, on that.
It is possible that an extractor can hold a round of ammo against the bolt face hard enough that the pin will fire it even though it is not fully chambered.
I just wanted to clarify that.

 

[Onomea]

I suggest using snap caps if you want to dry fire a rimfire. Here ya go: Amazon.com: A-Zoom 22 Lr Action Proving Dummy Rounds (12 Pack): Sports & Outdoors

 

[rakstr]

Those are training rounds and if you look at the package, it tells you NOT to dry fire with them. The warning on the back says something to the effect that dry firing will deform these after a few uses. I only know this because I've been trying to find something in .22 for teaching my wife.

I suggest using snap caps if you want to dry fire a rimfire. Here ya go: Amazon.com: A-Zoom 22 Lr Action Proving Dummy Rounds (12 Pack): Sports & Outdoors

 

[zoom6zoom]

Good practice or bad, dry firing wouldn't cause the trigger mechanism to fail and a spring to "pop" as asked by the OP/

 

[DoubleAdobe]

Funny this comes up, I recently got out an old Winchester 190 rifle that I have owned since the late 60's. It was forgotten at my Mom's house for about 25 years. Anyway I took it apart and cleaned it thoroughly recently, I did take the trigger group apart but just cleaned the bolt. The problem was the safety wasn't working.
Got it working and probably the 10th or so time I dry fired it the firing pin broke. What aggravates me is that the ball bearings on either side of the firing pin spring fell out and promptly disappeared.Sheesh, so now I am looking for parts, so from my standpoint, don't dry fire a Winchester 190.