Isn't selling ammo for profit illegal without an FFL?

[GaryS]

Perhaps the IRS could make some of these guys sweat. It isn't easy getting new people into the shooting sports when ammo isn't to be found.

Yep, let's sic the federal government on people doing something we don't like. Because there is NO chance that in the future someone might decide it's a good idea to sic the federal government on US because we're doing something they don't like.

I'll just say that this is one of the worst ideas I've ever read on any forum.

I'd say more, but I don't want to run afoul of the moderators.

 

[Warren Sear]

Let's work on Straw Purchase's,Face to Face sale's, and the Gun Show loop Hole. These will help protect our firearm rights. People buying and selling ammo is the least of our problems.

There is NO "Gun Show Loophole". Selling "face to face" is part of private ownership of property. Many good people have died for you to have this right.

 

[vipermd]

Thank you for setting me straight, guys. Upon further searching, it is illegal to manufacture (read sell reloads) without an FFL, but you don't need one to sell commercially manufactured ammo.

Perhaps the IRS could make some of these guys sweat. It isn't easy getting new people into the shooting sports when ammo isn't to be found.

You need a license to manufacture and sell reloads, but not an FFL. An FFL is needed if you are going to engage in the buying and selling of firearms for profit, has nothing to do with ammo on a federal level. Various states, local jurisdictions have "laws" pertaining to sale of ammo ( factory or reloaded ), most do not have any rhyme or reason. That being said: Certain ammo ( Pink Puffers) are regulated by certain jurisdictions/counties in some states, be aware that sending ammo to a prohibited state can and has gotten people arrested. Always check state then local laws to protect yourself. I have seen buyers of the above ammo say that it was legal, when upon further research their county lists it specifically as prohibited. Be Safe.

 

[Warren Sear]

Thank you for setting me straight, guys. Upon further searching, it is illegal to manufacture (read sell reloads) without an FFL, but you don't need one to sell commercially manufactured ammo.

Perhaps the IRS could make some of these guys sweat. It isn't easy getting new people into the shooting sports when ammo isn't to be found.

Are you saying you want the government, via the IRS, to harass people for selling ammo?

I have a better idea; have the government tax stupid people for not having essentials on hand, and then wanting the government to get involved and take care of them.

Oh, and ammo can be found easily, and almost everywhere. If you are looking for this year's ammo at last year's prices, you are SOL because stupid, greedy people are hoarding it.

 

[Skunkhome]

Probably what bothers me more is how the shooting sport has gotten so pedestrian that would be marksmen come to the range, with the latest fad in guns, dressed on camo, posts a full sized zombie target at three yards and proceeds to spray 300 rounds of ever precious ammo as rapidly as they can shove another of their preloaded magazine into the magazine well, never once hitting the large fluorescent bull. These folks aren't furthering the sport and they are inflating the cost of ammo due to their gluttonous presuit of action. Now, do I want them regulated out of the sport? Definitely not! I do hope that they finally regulate themselves out by realizing that they are spending a fortune on ammo and the latest wonder gun only to find that they can't "kill" the zombies like they do on their PSII or XBOX. I hope I can outlast the craze because as soon as these would bees prefect their "art" of jamming magazines in their guns and sending bullets flying down range they come in with their camo clad girlfriends to "teach" them how to burn ammo.

 

[handgunner356]

Well it is the free market idea, buy low-sell high. Just like the stock market, nobody lost ever money there did they? I just can't believe there are that many desperate people out there.

 

[Warren Sear]

Well it is the free market idea, buy low-sell high. Just like the stock market, nobody lost ever money there did they? I just can't believe there are that many desperate people out there.

I would say they are not desperate, but rather stupid, foolish, and greedy and want the "price police" to protect them.

 

[Lenny_D]

I would be careful about selling ammo to anyone in NY state. They have some crazy screwed up laws, but other than that, sellin factory ammo is no problem. Selling reloads, is another matter, as you would then be a manufacturer of ammo. You need a license for that. Also ammo that is shipped must be through UPS or FED EX. The post office wont take it.

The part of the NY's "Safe Act" that says ammo has to go through an FFL is NOT in effect yet. Please don't put any more stipulations on us New Yorkers. There is a real chance it will never go into effect. If you don't know for sure please don't spread rumors.

Len

 

[Skunkhome]

Let's work on Straw Purchase's,Face to Face sale's, and the Gun Show loop Hole. These will help protect our firearm rights. People buying and selling ammo is the least of our problems.

Straw Purchases as defined by federal law is illegal. Face to face (casual sales) are not. Furthermore "gun show loop holes" is a made up red herring.
The Columbine massacre proved that the Feds are not concerned with prosecuting straw purchases even when related to a mass homicide.

 

[gregintenn]

Are you saying you want the government, via the IRS, to harass people for selling ammo?

I have a better idea; have the government tax stupid people for not having essentials on hand, and then wanting the government to get involved and take care of them.

Oh, and ammo can be found easily, and almost everywhere. If you are looking for this year's ammo at last year's prices, you are SOL because stupid, greedy people are hoarding it.

Are these people paying income tax on the gains made by these ammo sales? All I'm saying is that I would like to see people representing gun owners obeying the law, and preferably setting a good example in front of people who may be on the fence about gun ownership.

I have plenty of ammo. It just sickens me to see people taking advantage of others' fears. It certainly doesn't shed a positive image on gun people in general.

 

[LimaCharlie]

If you occasionally sell a gun or box of ammo for a profit, you will not be on anyone's radar. At some point in volume, the federal, state, and local people will get interested. When one get interested, the others will follow. Then your life can be hell. The state and local will get you for operating without a license and state and local taxes. The BATFE and the IRS are unrelenting. I have known a couple of individuals charged with unlicensed businesses and unpaid taxes on profits. The shark feeding frenzy was incredible.

 

[gregintenn]

If you occasionally sell a gun or box of ammo for a profit, you will not be on anyone's radar. At some point in volume, the federal, state, and local people will get interested. When one get interested, the others will follow. Then your life can be hell. The state and local will get you for operating without a license and state and local taxes. The BATFE and the IRS are unrelenting. I have known a couple of individuals charged with unlicensed businesses and unpaid taxes on profits. The shark feeding frenzy was incredible.

You have hit upon what is really annoying me. I don't see a problem with someone occasionally trading. What I'm seeing are guys who seem to be attempting to make a living reselling ammunition. It isn't fair to my local gun dealer, who pays taxes, insurance, business license, FFL, owns a business front, etc., in order to try and do business the right way. Because of these clowns, and the fear they've perpetuated, he can't get any sizeable inventory to sell.

What sort of mess are we going to have on our hands when this same phenomonen takes over regarding gasoline, medicine, or food?

 

[kennyb]

Thank you for setting me straight, guys. Upon further searching, it is illegal to manufacture (read sell reloads) without an FFL, but you don't need one to sell commercially manufactured ammo.

Perhaps the IRS could make some of these guys sweat. It isn't easy getting new people into the shooting sports when ammo isn't to be found.

LOLOL...realizing you cannot get batf involved...you now want to put the irs on em??LOLOL!
who pays for this investigation on the guy making a couple bucks on .22 ammo?

 

[LimaCharlie]

You have hit upon what is really annoying me. I don't see a problem with someone occasionally trading. What I'm seeing are guys who seem to be attempting to make a living reselling ammunition. It isn't fair to my local gun dealer, who pays taxes, insurance, business license, FFL, owns a business front, etc., in order to try and do business the right way. Because of these clowns, and the fear they've perpetuated, he can't get any sizeable inventory to sell.

What sort of mess are we going to have on our hands when this same phenomonen takes over regarding gasoline, medicine, or food?

The good news is there are not enough government agents to catch all of them. The bad news is there are not enough government agents to catch all of them.

 

[Warren Sear]

You have hit upon what is really annoying me. I don't see a problem with someone occasionally trading. What I'm seeing are guys who seem to be attempting to make a living reselling ammunition. It isn't fair to my local gun dealer, who pays taxes, insurance, business license, FFL, owns a business front, etc., in order to try and do business the right way. Because of these clowns, and the fear they've perpetuated, he can't get any sizeable inventory to sell.

What sort of mess are we going to have on our hands when this same phenomonen takes over regarding gasoline, medicine, or food?

This site needs a "face-palm" icon.

 

[MichiganScott]

Straw Purchases as defined by federal law is illegal. Face to face (casual sales) are not. Furthermore "gun show loop holes" is a made up red herring.
The Columbine massacre proved that the Feds are not concerned with prosecuting straw purchases even when related to a mass homicide.

Robyn Anderson bought three of the four guns used at Columbine from individuals. Because they were not purchased from a dealer, the transfer was not a "straw purchase" under Federal law.

She denied any knowledge of what Klebold and Harris had planned. There was no proof to the contrary.

 

[Rule3]

You have hit upon what is really annoying me. I don't see a problem with someone occasionally trading. What I'm seeing are guys who seem to be attempting to make a living reselling ammunition. It isn't fair to my local gun dealer, who pays taxes, insurance, business license, FFL, owns a business front, etc., in order to try and do business the right way. Because of these clowns, and the fear they've perpetuated, he can't get any sizeable inventory to sell.

What sort of mess are we going to have on our hands when this same phenomonen takes over regarding gasoline, medicine, or food?

I understand what you are saying as the same thing happens here. Some guys line up at Wal Mart at 5 am and buy any and all ammo they can. Now what they do with it I don't now but will bet they are selling it.There is no law against it. There is price gouging laws in place during disasters for gas and food and such but not ammo, you can sell it for whatever the market bares. Some body but a set of Lee 9 mm dies on line for $130 or something. They were in stock at Midway or somewhere for regular price of $30.

I see the same thing at my LGS were a few guys buy lots and lots of guns of all kinds, it's BS that it's for their own collection as I know that they set up tables at every Gun Show and re sell them for a profit. Some claim this is an individual sale. I call it an un licensed business with no FFL, insurance, building, bound book etc etc. This is what I believe they call the "loop hole". If you and I occasionally sell a gun no big deal but sorry these other guys are running an unlicensed business, I do not give a damn about the sale to a resident is legal, yes it is but not a full time basis. But this is JMO others see it different which is fine.

 

[Skunkhome]

Are, you also concerned about the guy who comes out and paints your house, uncloggs your drain, mows your yard or works on your air conditioner? How do you know if they pay taxes? How many of those people have offered you a sizable discount if you pay in cash. If they offer, do you take the discount and pay in cash which makes it easier for them to evade taxes? There is a huge underground economy in this country because of our tax code but I bet most don't give it a second thought, however let some sap try to make a few bucks off resaling bargin basement ammo at premium prices and we get our panties in a wad and want the IRS to conduct an audit.

 

[rwsmith]

If they do it enough

They can do as a private business until they draw enough attention to themselves to make it worthwhile for agencies to take notice, then they will probably be told to either shut down or get proper licensing by the ATF and local business laws. It would probably take an awful lot of 'trafficking' to get anybody's attention.

 

[blujax01]

I would say they are not desperate, but rather stupid, foolish, and greedy and want the "price police" to protect them.

Agreed.

Instead of complaining about the guy at Wal*Mart buying up all the ammo, if one wants ammo all one has to do is get there before him.

If one does not like the price of ammo one may choose to lay off the sport until prices drop. Which they will - as soon as those feeding the frenzy BACK OFF!

It amazes me that everyone here had to pass a class in junior high school that explains all of this. It is simply the law of supply and demand. It isn't about "Greed" or "Excessive Profit" or "Hoarding". It is the free market at work.
Yet there are a bunch of folks that through their own lack of preparedness are in a pickle and demand that "something must be done". Well, something is being done - these folks are being taught an object lesson in economics.
This ain't no dress rehearsal folks, it's a crash course in the game of life. Learn from it or get caught with your pants down again the next time this happens. And IT WILL happen again.

~ Alan