CCW Notification to Law Officials?

[MaximumLawman]

It's for our own good, sure.

Presumably to protect us from cops like you, who talk about "putting one through a citizen's head" at an otherwise routine traffic stop?

No thanks, I'm glad I live in a state where I'm not legally required to disclose. Your comments are actually making me rethink my position to disclose at all.

Yeah, because we all know that nobody out there needs laws to protect themselves from themselves. Can't attack the message so attack the messenger? About what I expected sooner rather than later. You think the cops should allow someone stopped on a traffic stop one free shot before they open fire? Why exactly do you think shall-inform laws are passed? To help initiate friendly roadside conversations about guns between officer friendly and the motoring public?

The shall inform laws were not passsed for "officer safety".

Presumably to protect us from cops like you, who talk about "putting one through a citizen's head" at an otherwise routine traffic stop?

No, to protect the moron who carries his gun right by his wallet and who goes for his wallet with a gun inches away without saying anything on a traffic stop that MAY have occured as a result of the cop stopping the innocent carrier as a result of information broadcast over the radio regarding an armed robbery. That would be a justified shooting in my book. OR, to protect the idiot that keeps his gun in the glove box and then goes for his registration that is lying under the gun. You don't just have to worry about the cop at your window. There may very well be another cop at your passenger side that you don't see. As far as me personally, if I could have shot everyone I was legally justified in shooting, I'd have shot at least 10 people by now. I came up on the passener side of a car, at night, many years ago, where the passenger was holding a sawed-off M-1 carbine, waiting for my partner to approach on the driver side, looking toward his left. I didn't shoot HIM, so I think you might be able to draw some reasonabl inferences about my restraint when dealing with legal, but stupid CPL carriers.

Some people on these forums don't ahve the foresight to understand that it's not all about "them". If you can reasonably conduct the business of a traffic stop without exposing your gun in a way that the officer finds threatening, well good for you. The laws are generally passed with the lowest common denominator in mind. If that's not you, great. But if the shoe fits......

It never ceases to amaze me the far-out hypothetical situations that people talk about on gun forums but then expect the cops to be clairvoyant on a much more reasonably likely-to-happen traffic stop when it looks like someone is going for a gun. "Ah, he must just be going for his wallet. No need for alarm. Besides, we're required to let them shoot at us first before we fire....."

To summarize, yes, the shall-inform laws ARE passed with your own good in mind, your smarmy emoticon notwithstnading.

 

[Waywatcher]

Incidents like this are exactly why it should not be legally required to disclose.

YouTube

 

[Janitor]

Why is it "common courtesy" or "respectable" to let the LEO know I have a loaded weapon in the car? What earthly good will it do? Given that I'm a law abiding citizen what will the cop get from me telling them about it that the guy on the chair next to me at the restaurant doesn't deserve to hear? Don't get me wrong - I think the police are generally awesome and I believe we need far more people like that in our society. I just don't understand why they would have to know any more about my underwear than anyone else would.

Certainly, if I were being asked to get out of the car I would probably mention it. But if they're simply talking with me through my window, there's no immediate need to know.

BTW - in MN it's not a requirement that we tell them.

P.S. I'm not a tactical guy, but if I were a cop it seems like it would make sense to treat every person I stopped as though they're probably carrying.

P.P.S. - if I get pulled over, by the time the cop is at my window my wallet is on the console next to me and my hands are @ 10 & 2 on the steering wheel until they ask me to reach for something. No need to make anyone feel unsafe simply because I value my privacy.

 

[MaximumLawman]

Why is it "common courtesy" or "respectable" to let the LEO know I have a loaded weapon in the car?

It's not. I couldn't care less one way or the other if you're armed. What I do care about is what happens when it gets to the point when I reasonably perceive that someone is armed and dangerous.

 

[Moonman]

In classes I always advise the students to do the following;

Roll drivers window down before stopping,

Dome light on if at night,

Hands at 10 & 2 on the steering wheel, and DO NOT MOVE/REACH FOR ANYTHING.

Inform the officer IMMEDIATELY of your carry status. License is tied to your auto/drivers in this state.

Ask the officer how he/she would like to proceed.

Personally, I would go so far as to let the officer Handcuff me if it would make him feel safer, until the stop was resolved.

People with UNLICENSED spouses or children, I advise them to tell them procedure to follow also.

The GOAL is SAFETY, everyone goes home SAFE TONIGHT.

This matter is not a game, nor is it a Constitutional Court of Law debate.

Accidents do and have happened, we try to help people avoid being involved in them.

 

[MaximumLawman]

Incidents like this are exactly why it should not be legally required to disclose.

YouTube

Since we're playing Youtube with anecdotal evidence, here's the story about an Ohio cop killed on a "routine traffic stop" by a CPL holder. Maybe the officer was complacent because he assumed the guy must be a "good guy" if he had a permit. Maybe he wasn't and it was just another case of stuff happens. The fact that you have a CPL means only one thing to me: You're allowed to carry in a state and in a manner that you otherwise would not be legally allowed to in the absense of a permit. It doesn't mean you're a good guy, it doesn't mean you're proficient with a gun, it doesn't mean you're not a criminal, it doesn't mean that you're smart enough to not expose your gun in a threatening manner, it doesn't mean you get any brownie points on a traffic stop.....It only means you can carry in a situation where someone without a permit can't. That's it. And the shall-issue laws where they exist were made with all of this in mind for the protection of the citizen-carrier, not the cops.

Ohio Man Shoots Cop in Traffic Stop, Gets Death Penality Pt 2 - YouTube

 

[Waywatcher]

To summarize, yes, the shall-inform laws ARE passed with your own good in mind, your smarmy emoticon notwithstnading.

I appreciate the insight into the mind of a LEO. You should be aware that identifying yourself as such makes you become an ambassador of sorts. You should also know that your condescending attitude toward citizens, and belittling of me is having the exact opposite effect of having me change my mind and agree with you. In other words, I don't think you're being persuasive for your side of the argument.

As someone who has a hand in passing laws, I like to see how they get enforced in the real world, so I thank you for the insight. I stand by my earlier assertion that it should not be legally required, and I am glad that I live in a state where that is the case.

 

[Moonman]

MaximumLawman,

In the Ohio case the officer unfortunately did not wait for the registration to come back.

The PERP had a CCW but it had been suspended.

 

[Dikinalaska]

I respect both sides of the situation, and like to hear more peoples opinion on the subject. Especially from LEOs or former LEOs so like s&wchad said let's keep it civil so the thread doesn't get locked. Let's refrain from the "officers like you" or "idiot/moron" name calling. Please

 

[P&R Fan]

I have been pulled over quite a few times here in Iowa while I was carrying. We are not required to notify in this state. Whenever I get pulled over, regardless of whether I am carrying, I always have my DL in my hand, with both hands on the wheel. I turn on the dome light at night, and shut the car off.
Mas Ayoob has some good pointers on this. He says you do not need to notify if legal not to. However, if asked to step out of the car, the game changes. He says to say the following: "certainly, officer, but before I do I want to advise you I am licensed to carry, and am doing so now. Please tell me how you would like me to proceed". This is polite, to the point and matter of fact. Do NOT use the word "Gun". If his partner is coming up behind him, or on the other side, and that's what he hears, you're gonna see HIS gun, up close.

Most LEOs are smart enough that they will respect you for this, and it should head off any problems.
Jim

 

[MaximumLawman]

I appreciate the insight into the mind of a LEO. You should be aware that identifying yourself as such makes you become an ambassador of sorts. You should also know that your condescending attitude toward citizens, and belittling of me is having the exact opposite effect of having me change my mind and agree with you. In other words, I don't think you're being persuasive for your side of the argument.

As someone who has a hand in passing laws, I like to see how they get enforced in the real world, so I thank you for the insight. I stand by my earlier assertion that it should not be legally required, and I am glad that I live in a state where that is the case.

Not only do I not think my original post was condescending, but I'm also not trying to convince you of anything. Inform or not, as I said, I don't care one way or the other. I assume everyone I stop, from priest to gangster, may be armed and not have my best interests in mind. (One of Detroit's most notorious cop killers escaped town dressed as a priest). I merely explained what shall-inform laws are and what they are not. If you're the type who has to take everything personally within the context of my original post because "My God, I have a permit! He might shoot ME!" well, sorry if that's what you got out of it.

 

[MaximumLawman]

MaximumLawman,

In the Ohio case the officer unfortunately did not wait for the registration to come back.

The PERP had a CCW but it had been suspended.

How about Bart Johnson? I believe I saw the video for this one in a training class....

Pelham police officer's slaying baffles investigators | al.com