Thoughts on the Ammo Situation

[TacoDaTugBoat]

I bought my first rifle in July of last year, a 15-22. Bought a few hundred rounds and went through it pretty quick. As I went out to get more as I needed it, I noticed the price going up, not at my LGS because they are great, but everywhere else. So I started buying more at a time. Then I got a SR-22P and started buying more.

I stopped shooting for a few months over the winter as I shoot outside on my own property, but I kept buying as I saw decent prices. Now I am sitting on about 5k rounds. I get more through the ammo thread when good deals pop up, and I sell to friends at cost. I will certainly go through all the ammo I have in the next year, but I will probably keep a buffer of about 5k to ride out storms.

If necessary, yes. Actually .22lr is one of the primary calibers in a survival type situation for food gathering. Cheap, light, accurate, quiet, and can kill a large variety of game. I would hunt with it for anything smaller than deer before I would use up my larger, more expensive ammo.

Good luck spending days tracking down what you shot.

I do disagree about hunting with 22. You will not have to follow trail for days unless you are hunting with a bolt action and take the first shot you see. If you pick your shot carefully and use a semi auto like the 15-22 you can get a few follow up shots in before the animal hits the tree line or makes it out of site. Not as easy as a high caliber, but well within reach.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

And I do not see the original post by Red Neck Jim that is being quoted?

You & me both. Rather strange the way he says he's quoting me yet doesn't.

 

[Ammobob]

I do disagree about hunting with 22. You will not have to follow trail for days unless you are hunting with a bolt action and take the first shot you see. If you pick your shot carefully and use a semi auto like the 15-22 you can get a few follow up shots in before the animal hits the tree line or makes it out of site. Not as easy as a high caliber, but well within reach.

Forgive me put that statement is a little hard to understand. What are you referring to, and can you clarify please?

 

[RedNeck Jim]

I agree with you. It is the ethical dilemma that I am struggling with. While it is perfectly reasonable to sell for whatever you wish, and buy for whatever you can afford, we come to the thought that just because you CAN do something doesn't always mean you SHOULD. I am completely fine with free market ideals, but excessive greed bothers me.

Who is the one that gets to determine what is excessive? You want another government agency to define that for us all? I think we have enough big brother already. What is excessive to you might be the bare minimum for someone else. But even then, in a free society, how can we fault someone for excessive spending? Is that not capitalism at its finest? Is that not the engine that drives our economy? If people only bought what was needed or essential, our economy would look more like North Korea's.

 

[TacoDaTugBoat]

Forgive me put that statement is a little hard to understand. What are you referring to, and can you clarify please?

I revised the post with a quote from you, who I agree with; and another members response to you.

 

[Ammobob]

Who is the one that gets to determine what is excessive? You want another government agency to define that for us all?

I supposed we each have our idea of what is excessive. And no, I am against governmental control over anything that is not directly enumerated in our founding documents.

But there IS such a thing a profiteering. I feel it is unethical for a retail ammo supplier to buy product from another retail ammo supplier and charge triple for it, as one example. The person who saw boxes on a shelf at walmart at a certain price, tried to buy them, was told they were not for sale, and had to be repriced, then watched the boxes be repriced and set back out for sale at 3x the price. That is unethical.

There is such a thing as taking advantage of a situation (fear, panic) to raise prices far above normal product value. There have even been instances of artificially created panic or shortages in order to cause panic and fear and drive up price to exorbitant levels. This is all covered in basic economics.

 

[Ammobob]

I revised the post with a quote from you, who I agree with; and another members response to you.

Ah I see! Thank you sir!

 

[Gopher Slayer]

I like turtles

 

[durango]

Who is the one that gets to determine what is excessive? You want another government agency to define that for us all? I think we have enough big brother already. What is excessive to you might be the bare minimum for someone else. But even then, in a free society, how can we fault someone for excessive spending? Is that not capitalism at its finest? Is that not the engine that drives our economy? If people only bought what was needed or essential, our economy would look more like North Korea's.

I agree with you. Government structures and laws are in place to stop price gouging on items we need (gasoline in emergencies, etc.). Ammo doesn't fall into that category.

That said, I'm not sure excessive materialism is the only thing that drives our economy. Most responsible consumers work within a budget. Are there excessive purchases? Sure. But everyone I've met (with one or two exceptions... i.e. foolish people with too much money and not enough brains) shops around for the lowest price. In my opinion, competition is the main force driving our capitalistic system, not excessive, irresponsible consumer spending.

What we're seeing with .22 ammo is simple Adam Smith-style supply and demand issues which will reverse when the supply catches up.

But back to your point: Can we fault someone for excessive spending?

When someone buys a brand new car, the moment they drive off the lot they've instantly lost ~20-30% value on the car. Any way that you cut it, that person has spent excessively, given that there are millions of used cars that are perfectly viable in the market.

Are they within their rights to spend that money? Sure.

Is there anything wrong with losing ~20-30% of the money you spent instantly? Not if you can afford it but some consumers might think that is a poor use of their money.

Is the money spent wisely? Well, no, probably not as wisely as it might otherwise be spent.

Just my opinion but I think needs must be balanced with greed. On the capitalistic seller's side, if you want to charge the earth for a tiny box of .22 ammo, there is nothing wrong with that. PT Barnum's philosophy of a "sucker born every minute" holds pretty true.

On the consumer's side, if you are wise and don't want to be a "sucker," you'll wait for the supply curve to exceed the demand curve before spending your money.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

But there IS such a thing a profiteering.

Well, if we lived in North Korea, profiteering would be a bad thing... unless you were connected to the leadership. However, is that not the point of capitalism? Why is it now a bad thing? You think Ford, Gates, Rockefeller, Hearst, etc., etc. didn't get rich by profiteering? What about the gas you buy? You seen Exxon's profits?

Of course I don't want to pay so much for gas, ammo, or for my car or for some software, but if the market will bear it, God bless them & God bless capitalism.

 

[Pointshoot]

You want ammo now ? Do what it takes to get it now. Sell stuff, trade stuff, offer services, etc, etc Get creative & get off your backside. Most of us on this forum have some resources. Afterall, we can buy computers and we can buy expensive guns that shoot the high priced ammo that we complain about.

You want ammo at pre Sandy Hook prices now ? Maybe you'll get lucky, but don't hold your breath. I'd like to buy gas at 1957 prices, but thats not gonna happen soon either.

Youre not going to pay any more than pre Sandy Hook prices ? Youre gonna have to wait. Maybe the supply situation will improve. And maybe another event will happen and the supply situation will get even tighter. "You place your bets and takes your chances." Unless you have a crystal ball or are in a high level position in a major ammo manufacturer or in government, you don't know what will happen in the future. You only have your opinion and belief that 'tomorrow will be like yesterday' - - often that's true, and sometimes it isn't.

What absolutely doesn't work ? Refusing to pay the price to get ammo now, and then complain about others who have different priorities and a view of the future than you do. What doesnt work ? Spending time to complain, rather than taking action to get what you say you want.

P.S. - - - most of these points are a rewrite of those I brought up to a nephew who recently entered a local small college. He wants all sorts of things now, but hasnt seemed to be willing to put in the work or creative thought to get them. He seems to be waiting for someone else to do it for him. Thats not a good way to start out as an 18 yr old kid.

 

[JLMartinez88]

Yeah! What he said! Do what you need to do to get what you want. All there is to it.

 

[Abattoir]

Everyone provides excellent arguments to both sides. Supply/demand will eventually even out. Prices will just continue to hold, or rise. Ammo prices are anyone's guess these days.

Personally? I have one rule about ammo and this photo sums it up nicely.

 

[Nitrous SSC]

I say that. I just finished relocating 10k of it in various calibers. I enjoy reloading as a relaxing way to zone out. I guess my stress levels were a little high and a stock pile built up.

 

[gmiller0737]

Enough ammo?

No such thing.

This too will pass.

When it does, I hope the lesson is learned and people will prepare for the next time it will happen as there will indeed be a next time.

BE PREPARED!

Yep! I saw this coming in 2008 & Prepared acordingly & have Plenty of Everything I haven't purchased anything in 2013 & won't untill supplys/prices settle down Then I will do as always buy a little & put some up for later,Ammo Keeps as long as it's well stored (G.I. Cans for Me) Price will likely not go down so there is no reason not to stock up.

 

[LimaCharlie]

LC, you are a compassionate soul. I kinda got a tear or two flowing as I typed this ...

Now go do the logical thing and get yourself something that uses that ammo, if you REALLY did not need it.

I do have something that uses and likes that ammo. I had a life-time supply before. I have been stocking up since Bill Clinton won the election in 1992. Now I have more in case I live longer than expected.

 

[Dezfan]

I love how all the hoarders talk about learning a lesson and being prepared.

Sitting on the 10's of thousands of rounds and they couldn't hit a house if they were on the inside of it shooting out.

I call being prepared shooting weekly, and i do.

The ammo is out there but doesn't change the fact that ammobob is right, and enthusisasts are screwing their own kind..

Only ammo i'm short is 22lr, and that's because in January I passed on an entire shelf of it at the basspro in altoona iowa, because I had plenty at the time and very literally sat there and thought to myself i don't want to contribute to the problem.. but like i said i shoot allot and weekly so even a reasonable stockpile doesn't last 5 months if you actually shoot.

So you had "enough" and you passed on 22LR. Now you're short on 22LR and refer to those who are prepared as "hoarders"?

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

I too shoot weekly. Knowing this, I continue to purchase ammo to supplement and offset what I shoot.

Guess what that leads to? Not getting caught short.

So feel free to act sanctimonious and offended.

I'll continue to prepare for situations like this, I'll take responsibility for myself and my family's needs, and I'll continue to shoot to my hearts content without having to fear running short or having to whine and complain about being taken advantage of.

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

22lr is the only thing I'm short on and that's because I took possession of my 15-22 just weeks before Sandy Hook, its my only 22lr so I only have 4k.

My only gripe is everyone and their dog becoming resellers without actually following the law. Last I checked you needed a business license and a resellers permit here to become one and I know nobody has one. Apparently they are somehow special. Once you have that I could care less what you charge, hell local range was charging $45/50 for 22lr (yeah that's right 50) and that doesn't bother me(ok I did cringe a little at the thought of 22lr at almost a $1 a pop). Of course I won't buy it, I'll keep reloading for my centerfires as I've own those long enough to build up a buffer.

 

[SickStroke6.0]

Just a thought... What if the ammo supply companies see the "Adam Smith style" supply and demand here, and are holding back shipments in order to create a panic? This will increase their sales, and insure sales for as long as the shortage continues. For example, didn't one of the ammo companies send 20 million rounds to a boys/girls foundation during this "shortage?" Seems out of place since they are struggling to keep up with the paying consumer's demand. And it's not that I don't support those kind of donations, because I definitely do.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, just a thought, and wanted you guy's opinions. I'm not convinced of anything, it was merely just a thought. So don't think I'm a crazy lunatic.

 

[arjay]

Everyone has a pain threshold on prices.$25-30 for a brick of bulk 22 is it for me,hell I was annoyed when it hit $10 and switched to center fire back in the 80s.When it comes back down and I can just walk in the store and buy it I will.Until then Ill shoot up what I have and move on to other things.This silliness isn't permanent folks.