US Customs Service 686 CS-1

[BJoe]

It scares me when someone labels me as an expert... makes it so they might think I know something.... big stretch. 18DA1, thank you for keeping the old info alive with this post, appreciate your efforts.

The CS-1 was a fascination to me when they were first hitting the streets, made possible through the "Sales Exchange" program that the US government ran back then. That practice was terminated by Ms. Reno during the Clinton administration, as I was told by folks at Glynco back when I was looking for info on this model.

When they came out I started out doing research for an article that I drafted but never published, so my info is a tad dated as it was assembled in the late 1994, early 1995 timeframe.

A general comment about serial numbers..... When S&W went to the new 3Alpha4Numeric numbering system they migrated all production to this methodology. With rare exception, reserved serial number blocks are not seen outside of the Performance Center runs. This means that you will see guns in a specific shipment with numbers that may not even be close to each other as they are assigned somewhere in the production run and may not necessarily be consistent within a model, frame size, etc., You may find a 3Alpha4Numeric number for say a M36, with the next number being assigned to a M5906, or some other permutation. Again, this is a general statement, with standard production guns I'm sure there are some reserved blocks assigned to specific production guns, but it's not often seen.

The reason I mention this is due to the questions about the CS-1 serial number questions above need to be considered with respect to how the factory assign s/n's (see above paragraph).

In my limited research back in 94/95, I saw many s/n prefixes on some of the guns my local dealer(s) got, with no specific pattern. I found one of my note files with some of the guns I inspected in the NW and location where they shipped are noted below:

Serial Number Brl.

BAU1002 3”

Shipped to US Customs
Glynco, GA
8-17-88
Factory records show 3”, RB
------------------------------
ANE6585 3”
Shipped to Joe Parker, Director
US Customs
Glynco, GA
10-14-86
Factory records show 3”, RB
------------------------------
AWP2235 3”
Originally shipped from factory July, 1987 (to Customs)
Returned to factory March, 1988
Shipped to Ellett Brothers
Cape Bend, S. Carolina
May, 1988
-----------------------------
AYD4957 4”
Shipped to Accu Sports
Ohio
Shipped 12-18-87
Factory records show 4”, RB
-----------------------------
BAU1106
Shipped to US Customs
Glynco, GA
9-24-88
Factory records show 3”, RB
-----------------------------
AVE9293
Shipped to Joe Parker, Director
US Customs
Glynco, GA
10-14-86
Factory records show 3”, RB
-----------------------------
BAB8029
Shipped to US Customs
Glynco, GA
3-15-88
Factory records show 3”, RB

As you can see from the limited sample above, the ship dates of the ones we saw initially up here were scattered in the 86/88 timeframe, and serial number prefixes included ANE, AVE, AWP, AYD, BAU, BAB...... all over the place as I would expect given the s/n assignment methodology the factory was/is using since converting around 1980 to this system.

By no means is this definitive, but it's indicative of what I think you'll find with the CS-1 gun serial numbers out there.

Good read. Interesting that S&W, though they had a contract with Customs, sold handguns meeting those specs to the public BEFORE the contract was filled to Customs.
LOGIC, though that is rarely used with S&W, would dictate once you got a contract you filled the contract, so you could get paid, before civilian sales................wait. Did I just answer my own question? If S&W knew they weren't going to be paid till after all the guns were delivered, 2-3 years, interrupting Gov guns to the civilian market would get them paid NOW, instead of 2-3 years. HMMMMMMMMMMMM

Bob

 

[SmithNut]

more ramblings.....

Has anyone a copy, or has anyone read the actual US Customs service requirements for accuracy and durability required of these 686 CS1 variants? Thanks! Regards 18DAI

From my original notes:

On April 9, 1985, after a year in the writing, Custom’s Service Armorers in Glynco, GA. published a specification defining the Service’ needs for a .357 Magnum Revolver (Revolver, Caliber .357 Magnum, Double Action, 6 shot Commercial). Part of the specifications required that the revolver had to pass a 10,000 torture test using full power loads. I used to have a copy of the RFP that was let that led to the CS-1 Contract, but after a move 6 years ago it's buried somewhere.... I've looked several times but have not been able to locate it, one day.....

Other notes, of interest:

The first CS-1 was indicated to be ALA0000 (never formally confirmed), and delivered to the Head of Customs at the time.

One gentleman I talked (name withheld) was a Defensive Equipment Specialist/Armorer for the Customs Service during the trials of the CS-1. He mentioned to me that he installed 6" barrels to 4-5 CS-1's for the Customs Service Shooting team, as well as 2 1/2" barrels to 2-3 revolvers for use in Combat Match competitions. All these Shooting team guns had Patridge sights installed, unlike the 3" and 4" issued guns. Interesting in thinking of this that 1/10" wide Patridge sights are hard to come by so my supposition is that the 2 1/2" and 6" barrels he mentioned would likely be standard production barrels with the 1/8" wide blade slot... Just a wild guess, unless they were able to buy a small quantity of these barrels from the factory with the narrower slot milled in .... interesting... ! I guess if anyone ever finds a CS-1 marked gun with a 2 1/2"" or 6" barrel and the front sight is 1/10" wide we'll know...

The 686 CS-1 was originally ordered to be deployed to Inspectors of the Customs Service . Up until this time, the Inspectors were not all armed. When the CS-1’s were being deployed, it was decided to deploy universally.

In general, the 3” guns were first issued to supervisors, while the 4” guns went to others. Later practice saw the barrel length left up to the different Port location supervisors.

 

[vegasgunhand]

What weapons did agents use instead of the CS-1s?

At the time, and until 1994, the Customs Service firearms policy allowed Agents to purchase, qualify with, and carry personally owned handguns. There were approximately ten different manfacutures that were on the approved list.

The requirements were revolvers 2" to 4" barrel, in either .38Spl or .357 Magnum. Six shot revolvers were considered a primary handgun, five shot revolvers were back-up or undercover carry only.

Semi autos had to be .380 (back-up or undercover carry only), 9mm, .40 S&W, 10mm, or 45ACP. And they had to be from the approved list. Double action, or Striker-fired pistols only. We were prohibitied from carrying single action (1911) pistols.

Once a local firearms officers examined your personally owned pistol, and you qualified with it, you were approved to carry it on duty.

In or around 1994, Ray Kelly became the Commisoner of Customs. When he found out that we could carry personally owned handguns, and he freaked out. He immediately ordered Glock 17s for uniformed inspectors, and Glock 19s and 26s for Agents. Once all Inspectors and Agents were trained and issued Glocks, he killed the personally owned handgun policy.

 

[vegasgunhand]

From my original notes:

On April 9, 1985, after a year in the writing, Custom’s Service Armorers in Glynco, GA. published a specification defining the Service’ needs for a .357 Magnum Revolver (Revolver, Caliber .357 Magnum, Double Action, 6 shot Commercial). Part of the specifications required that the revolver had to pass a 10,000 torture test using full power loads. I used to have a copy of the RFP that was let that led to the CS-1 Contract, but after a move 6 years ago it's buried somewhere.... I've looked several times but have not been able to locate it, one day.....

Other notes, of interest:

The first CS-1 was indicated to be ALA0000 (never formally confirmed), and delivered to the Head of Customs at the time.

One gentleman I talked (name withheld) was a Defensive Equipment Specialist/Armorer for the Customs Service during the trials of the CS-1. He mentioned to me that he installed 6" barrels to 4-5 CS-1's for the Customs Service Shooting team, as well as 2 1/2" barrels to 2-3 revolvers for use in Combat Match competitions. All these Shooting team guns had Patridge sights installed, unlike the 3" and 4" issued guns. Interesting in thinking of this that 1/10" wide Patridge sights are hard to come by so my supposition is that the 2 1/2" and 6" barrels he mentioned would likely be standard production barrels with the 1/8" wide blade slot... Just a wild guess, unless they were able to buy a small quantity of these barrels from the factory with the narrower slot milled in .... interesting... ! I guess if anyone ever finds a CS-1 marked gun with a 2 1/2"" or 6" barrel and the front sight is 1/10" wide we'll know...

The 686 CS-1 was originally ordered to be deployed to Inspectors of the Customs Service . Up until this time, the Inspectors were not all armed. When the CS-1’s were being deployed, it was decided to deploy universally.

In general, the 3” guns were first issued to supervisors, while the 4” guns went to others. Later practice saw the barrel length left up to the different Port location supervisors.

To clarify a couple of things. Prior to the CS-1 Inspectors were armed, depending on their duty stations. They were not classified as full time law enforcement officers, so they could not carry weapons off duty. They were issued several different S&W and Colt .38 Spl revolvers, depending on the region they were stationed in. It was left up to the Reginal Commisoners as to who in their Region would be armed on duty.

The 3 inch CS-1 went primarily to Agents and Air Interdiction Officers. There may have been a few that were given to Inspectors, but nearly all Inspectors carried the 4 inch CS-1.

After the CS-1 was taken out of the field, several were converted to allow only Simunition rounds to be inserted in the cylinder, and they were sent back out to the field for force on force training. They were subsequently replaced by the Glock 17T pistols for force on force training.

 

[F224]

Guys: Thanks for keeping this thread alive. I just found a CS-1 with the 2 and M marks as described above. Clearly it was a Glenco modified gun. I did not get a box or papers with it. It appears to not have been fired much at all. The only thing I am unsure of is the chambers, all six are perfectly chamfered, like you would see on Performance Center gun. I am not sure if that is a part of the original specifications or not.

 

[BJoe]

Guys: Thanks for keeping this thread alive. I just found a CS-1 with the 2 and M marks as described above. Clearly it was a Glenco modified gun. I did not get a box or papers with it. It appears to not have been fired much at all. The only thing I am unsure of is the chambers, all six are perfectly chamfered, like you would see on Performance Center gun. I am not sure if that is a part of the original specifications or not.

I am on my 3rd CS-1 3" and none had recessed cylinders......BUT that doesn't mean S&W didn't make it that way. Get it lettered.

 

[F224]

They are not resessed, just competition chamfered, for easy reloads. I am thinking some one else did it along the way.

 

[18DAI]

Thank you SmithNut!! Best regards, 18DAI

 

[SG-688]

The January, 1988 issue of SWAT also had a good article written by a Shawn McCarver.

 

[TAROMAN]

Having seen so many threads on the CS-1 over the years, this evening I queried a friend (a retired Customs Service firearms instructor) about the CS-1.
After a roll of eyes he replied how many agents disliked the guns, complaining about the weight compared to their beloved K-Frames. Said they were called "boat anchors".
He went on to detail the circumstances that led to many of them being given to the Haitian Police.
That said, I'm quite fond of my 3" 686-5+, but usually carry a 12-3!

 

[AKAOV1MAN]

As to the inquiry about powder residue buildup underneath the ejector star, this can happen to any revolver with ammo that does not burn completely, or mostly completely in the barrel. The "Treasury load" 110 gr +P+ load was particularly miserable in that respect. To get to +P+ specs(there are no recgonized industry specs-only what the particular agency wanted) one had to use a fast burning ball powder and a lot of it. The result was a lot of unburned powder. And a lot of it migrated to all parts of the revolver, but under the ejector star was a place where it could be trapped, and it was.
I have a 3" and 4" CS-1, both were "overrun" guns. I have fired both of them extensively, I never used the +P+ load, but the "FBI" or "Chicago" load in .38 special 158gr SWCHP, or full house 125 gr .357 mag loads. The only time I had the powder buildup problem was when I used handloads of my own that used 2400 powder, which is very slow burning and should only be used in longer barrel guns or rifles. I used it because I had a lot of it on hand and got it cheap. So the idea is to use a powder that will burn rapidly for the barrel lenght concerned so there will not be any extra unburned powder to gum things up. Ball powder due to its shape is particularly bad when trapped under the ejector star. YMMV-but not much.
The CS-1 guns were great guns, and probably the best duty revolver that S&W turned out-not counting the N frame .357s of course.

 

[Cpt. Obvious]

Such a bunch of great info, thanks to all who contributed! I should be getting my 4" CS-1 on Monday or so, and hopefully soon thereafter take my father-in-law to the range to shoot it. He was a customs inspector for 30+ years, local union chapter president, too. He said it was his favorite gun to shoot, he's not a gun person, either.

 

[Cpt. Obvious]

Here's some pics of mine, pretty sure it didn't go to Glynco, it is lacking 2M on it. It's slick as all get out, DA pull is amazing, and it's got the tightest barrel/cylinder gap I've ever seen. doesn't look to have been fired after leaving factory, despite the cylinder ring.

 

[vegasgunhand]

I was on Gun Broker this morning and queried "U.S. Customs". There is a CS-1 for sale for $1,700.00!! I'm glad I got mine for $369.00 when they first came out on the exchange sale program!

 

[gumpys]

I was on Gun Broker this morning and queried "U.S. Customs". There is a CS-1 for sale for $1,700.00!! I'm glad I got mine for $369.00 when they first came out on the exchange sale program!

Good luck getting that price. There is another dreamer on there as well who thinks these guns are worth a small fortune

 

[BJoe]

A few months ago a 3" model went for $2400 WITHOUT box. Bought my first one for $700 with box.

 

[BJoe]

Good luck getting that price. There is another dreamer on there as well who thinks these guns are worth a small fortune

Look at the 3' 547 that recently sold for $3200, or the 671 for $2375. With S&W's no such thing as crazy prices these days.

 

[gumpys]

Look at the 3' 547 that recently sold for $3200, or the 671 for $2375. With S&W's no such thing as crazy prices these days.

Can you say shilled ????? it seems like the same sellers get those price's too. I have got a few high price's in my time , but for guns that there were less than 100-150 made not 4000 made.

Eric

 

[gumpys]

I hear you Joe, I sold a 3" CS1 in original box last year for 1,100 and thought I got the better end of the deal, lol. This year I would beg to differ, lol.

Eric

 

[BJoe]

Maybe I should rephrase that: S&W' that are VERY clean with box, and docs, seem to be bringing the big bucks. That just isn't G-brok but all the recent gun shows.
I still look, and bid, on G-brok but the big bucks guys soon pass me up.