Supplemental reloading data

[rwsmith]

I've got my reloading manuals, the Lyman Cast Handbook and the manufacturers have their websites for info. Is there any supplemental data from other sources, especially concerning cast bullets? I've seen some 'load guide' pamphlet type books around. Are they of any use?

 

[Nevada Ed]

All ANY manual is, is a "Guide" to get you in the ball park, figure wise.
You can shoot loads and see if any are accurate in your weapons but the only true way to see if the data is correct is if you have access to a ..........

Chrony.

Half the time they do not mention the type gun or barrel length in some of the manuals, so you are already guessing on what you will get.

Just adding more powder to see if the primer flattens out or the cases are hard to extract is not the best way to find your guns maximum for a certain load. Several of my loads were below or some even above the rated fps in a few manuals.
Both the Atomic Speer and the safe Lyman manuals have been found to be "OFF" a little to a lot, in several of my test with the 38 spl. and .357 magnum loads, since I got my chrony.

I always take the maximum CUP with a grain of salt if I go there but I usually just load target loads for most of my shooting.

Have fun and stay safe.

 

[moxie]

"Atomic Speer"?

 

[retired_diver]

"Atomic Speer"?

The Speer reloading manuals seem to run Hot (Atomic) in some of their Mag handgun calibers.

Here is an example: Speer #10 list 357 mag 125 JHP with 2400 @ starting 17.5gr - 1399fps and max 19.5gr - 1555 in a 6" barreled Ruger Security six. Lyman 49th (latest) lists 125 JHP with 2400 @ starting 13.0gr - 1159 and max 17.7gr - 1478

 

[rwsmith]

A chrony....

All ANY manual is, is a "Guide" to get you in the ball park, figure wise.
You can shoot loads and see if any are accurate in your weapons but the only true way to see if the data is correct is if you have access to a ..........

Chrony.

Half the time they do not mention the type gun or barrel length in some of the manuals, so you are already guessing on what you will get.

Just adding more powder to see if the primer flattens out or the cases are hard to extract is not the best way to find your guns maximum for a certain load. Several of my loads were below or some even above the rated fps in a few manuals.
Both the Atomic Speer and the safe Lyman manuals have been found to be "OFF" a little to a lot, in several of my test with the 38 spl. and .357 magnum loads, since I got my chrony.

I always take the maximum CUP with a grain of salt if I go there but I usually just load target loads for most of my shooting.

Have fun and stay safe.

Thanks. A chrony is on my shopping list. (Maybe Christmas??) I'm finding it to be more necessary to have one with cast bullets that have velocity limitation and not very much published data.

 

[rwsmith]

Even myself...

I know how reloading books vary. But lately (again with cast bullets) I've been in despair over HOW MUCH they vary. I even posted a thread a few weeks ago about this. This last year I've been forced by the shortages into unmarked territory and I don't like 'guesstimating' what to try. Maybe a chrono will at least make me feel a little better.

This is why I'm asking if there is any other published data. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is a wellspring of info, but there are big holes in their data for some bullet weights and not so many powders.

 

[rwsmith]

Sierra used to be atomic....

The Speer reloading manuals seem to run Hot (Atomic) in some of their Mag handgun calibers.

Here is an example: Speer #10 list 357 mag 125 JHP with 2400 @ starting 17.5gr - 1399fps and max 19.5gr - 1555 in a 6" barreled Ruger Security six. Lyman 49th (latest) lists 125 JHP with 2400 @ starting 13.0gr - 1159 and max 17.7gr - 1478

When all the books were (and still are) saying that a .38 special +P max load for a 125 grain jhp was 6 grains of Unique max, an old Sierra book gave 7 grains as the max. I loaded some at 6.4 starting load and after trying them, I decided that I didn't need anything quite that HOT! I call these 'hunting loads' and they probably are used mostly in heavy frame revolvers.

 

[forestswin]

I've got my reloading manuals, the Lyman Cast Handbook and the manufacturers have their websites for info. Is there any supplemental data from other sources, especially concerning cast bullets? I've seen some 'load guide' pamphlet type books around. Are they of any use?

rw
Yeah, the load guide pamplet books are a help. I use them, Lymans, Hornady, Speer, powder companies' website and using the search function here on the forum to develop the range of charges for the bullets I get.

The advice here is good - I have and I am sure you have gotten to know certain members that know what they are talking about - as you read advice from several you'll see a concensus form. I compare that to the books and start low.

I especially like other members that tell you a load they use and have pictures of their targets - w/one big whole. That's almost like cheating

You've been doing your homework, I don't think anyone would balk at helping narrow down powders and loads for your lead bullets. Most don't look much like the sketches in the book so post a picture of the bullet and ask if anyone else shoots the same bullet.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Most reloaders want fast or near max loads where I on the other hand have been testing for light loads from 110gr to 158gr bullets in our 38 special snub nose for the lady of the house and her daughter.

In my M49 a 110jhp with 4.4grs of Red Dot gets 674 while 4.8 is a Winchester dup. of 860 fps. A 125gr lead with 4.0grs of 231 hits 661....... 3.7grs of trail does 676 ....... 4.4grs of Universal runs around 600fps and very accurate.

The 158 Lswc can run from a low 522 fps with SR4756 to a hot Unique load at 851 fps. I have had this bullet up to a 948 fps average with just three shots across the chrony with a different powder but I did not fire the last two rounds in the cylinder........I limit this weapon to 888fps as any maximum reading in this weight of bullet, even though it is a steel frame. By the way, this load was only .1 over Alliants max 38 special loads but had a very heavy crimp with just a standard cci 500 primer.
Funny how some loads turn out............
I guess the 158 lead at only 522fps is safe in a snub nose but I don't think I would try to force it to come out of my long 6 inch barrel.

Stay safe.

 

[Nemo288]

The Lee manual has a conglomeration of recipes from a variety of sources.
More than most. It's the statistical analysis he does with them that is unique.
Recommended. You will have to ignore the usual shill for his products.

The approach that I have favored over the years is to just get every book and manual you can lay your hands on.
I have even been getting some on eBay that were published decades ago because they are
continually throwing away data as they "upgrade" the manuals.
You can never have too many.

===
Nemo

 

[moxie]

The Speer reloading manuals seem to run Hot (Atomic) in some of their Mag handgun calibers.

Here is an example: Speer #10 list 357 mag 125 JHP with 2400 @ starting 17.5gr - 1399fps and max 19.5gr - 1555 in a 6" barreled Ruger Security six. Lyman 49th (latest) lists 125 JHP with 2400 @ starting 13.0gr - 1159 and max 17.7gr - 1478

Well, yeah, but Speer #10 was published around 30 years ago. We're up to #14 I think and they are now a lot milder.

 

[butchkent]

Check out Hand loads.com. Reloading site for reloaders, by reloaders. It's my only resource other than fellow shooters.

 

[dickttx]

I bought the Loadbook for 38 Super and found it to be pretty useless.
Simply copies of out of date manuals.
The Lee book is kind of the same, but does seem to be more current. I find that a lot of bullets don't show the powder I want to use.
The powder companies seem to have the best data, for me.

 

[mikld]

I have been reloading since about '69 when I pounded out my first .38 Special on a Lee Loader. I now have about 8 or 10 manuals and have never felt a need for a "supplemental" source of load data. I have seen loads in magazines, on line forums (ignore), reloading sites, and pamphlets and just about anywhere guns is spoken. But every load not from a manual that goes in my guns is checked against my manuals. It's interesting/fun to read about reloading data and different powders, but for me at least, the last word is my reloading manuals. I have used info from powder manufacturer web sites, but that usually mirrors what is in the company's manual. I believe a person could reload for many years using the varied combinations of powder, bullets, and primers listed in manuals (I have)...

 

[rwsmith]

I had adhered to that in the past......

I have been reloading since about '69 when I pounded out my first .38 Special on a Lee Loader. I now have about 8 or 10 manuals and have never felt a need for a "supplemental" source of load data. I have seen loads in magazines, on line forums (ignore), reloading sites, and pamphlets and just about anywhere guns is spoken. But every load not from a manual that goes in my guns is checked against my manuals. It's interesting/fun to read about reloading data and different powders, but for me at least, the last word is my reloading manuals. I have used info from powder manufacturer web sites, but that usually mirrors what is in the company's manual. I believe a person could reload for many years using the varied combinations of powder, bullets, and primers listed in manuals (I have)...

I had adhered to that same philosophy when I could choose what I wanted to buy. The shortages have caused me to take up cast lead and there just isn't as much published date that takes cast bullets into account.

 

[rwsmith]

Most reloaders want fast or near max loads where I on the other hand have been testing for light loads from 110gr to 158gr bullets in our 38 special snub nose for the lady of the house and her daughter.

Stay safe.

I do light loads for my wife and son and even I find them a lot of fun to shoot. And, thanks, I will.

 

[rwsmith]

You've been doing your homework, I don't think anyone would balk at helping narrow down powders and loads for your lead bullets. Most don't look much like the sketches in the book so post a picture of the bullet and ask if anyone else shoots the same bullet.

Thanks, I've tried to be thorough on this. Here is a link with a picture and description of the bullet.

http://www.pennbullets.com/30/30-caliber.html


Select the 115 gr RNBB for a close up and description. I'm 'shooting for' 1700-1800 fps out of a 30-06 with SR4759. I've been successful with jacketed bullets of the same weight using SR4759.

I also like much-reduced loads of IMR4895 that give velocities with jacketed bullets of 2000-2400 fps (of course that's estimating without a chrono and using book data). Those are fun to play with, too.

Update: I just corrected the numbers of the powder I'm using..... SR4759. Durn these things are confusing.

 

[retired_diver]

Well, yeah, but Speer #10 was published around 30 years ago. We're up to #14 I think and they are now a lot milder.

Yes, I know the data was just to show what Speer "Atomic" means and the variations that exists in books. There was a period when "people" were trying to "prove" that a 357 mag was just as "bad" as a 44 mag. The velocities were crazy especially before the internet and these forums. When I started i had the same Speer #8 and Speer #10 and that's all. It was back in the days I call BC (Before Cell phones) Not knowing any better and using published data I had case head separations and flatten primers and backed off. But, had no one to talk to. At least I was shooting these loads in a M27. If i feel like shooting a hotter 357 mag, I now shoot it in my Ruger GP100 6" barrel. I hardly ever shoot "hot" loads anymore, my arm and hands and wrists are just getting to old, along with my eyes I still have a sw629 4" barrel and it causes too much pain to shoot factories loads any more. One of the reasons I reload

 

[Engineer1911]

Additional information

Google "Powder burn Rate" and you get a listing to powder from the fastest to the slowest. You have a pound of M pistol powder but no load data. You see where M is on the burn chart compared to other powders listed in the data.

A little logical thinking, maybe even an X-Y graph of the powder charge vs. velocity will give you a reasonable starting point for the powder you have.

Example: Powder L (faster) has a starting charge of 5.0 grains with a 158 LSWC. Powder N (slower) has starting charge of 6.2 grains with a 158 grain LSWC. A reasonable starting charge for your Powder M (between L and N) 5.4 to 5.7 grains with a 158 grain LSWC.

Using this reasoning, I loaded Winchester 452 and 473 shotgun powder in 38 spl loads for 6 years before Winchester published data. My loads were in the middle of the published data range. Two years later 452 and 473 were discontinued. Pistol powder was $10 to $14 per pound, 452 and 473 were available for $7 to $12 per pound .

 

[azjohn]

Try this site.
Cast Bullet Load Data