Atomic reverse wad cutters

[Cal44]

Has anyone tried these:

38 Special +P

Reversed 38 special wad cutters.

Any thoughts on how they would compare with FBI loads for SD purposes.

Also, how accurate are they, I wonder?

Dave

 

[robertrwalsh]

It is my understanding that the skirts tend to blow off on reversed hollow base wadcutters. My GUESS is that they would tend to give inadequate penetration, but that Is only a guess. It was a common roll our own SD load way back when.

 

[brucev]

Looks like a great idea. Granted years ago folks may not have had uniformly stellar results loading HBWC backward. Doubtless the skirts on those bullets are not uniformly sized, there are bound to be some brands that are more heavily designed than others. Certainly using a bullet with a more substantial skirt would be a good idea. If you anticipate having to shoot through assorted car windshields, refrigerators, etc., then this is not the bullet you want to use. But used in a SD/HD incident, these bullets loaded to an effective velocity would be a good choice. Will be interested to see what results folks obtain using this AA load.

 

[2152hq]

IIRC the sometimes problem was that the center of the bullet would blow thru and leave the rest stuck in the bbl.
The center was very thin on some as the cavity was very deep.

Most of the 38 W/Cs bought were sweged and were very soft lead. They were fine for what they were intended for,,light target loads.
When trying to pump them up into something like a +P , the reletively thin center of the very soft alloy bullet blasted through.
That occured whether they were loaded upside down or not.

The problem never caught much attension until the craze of upside-down loading them started to catch on.
It was supposed to be an easy way to make your M36 or D/Sp into a real stopper.

Hard cast alloy HBWC bullets don't have the tendency to blow through, but the word was out,,and most shied away from using the loading procedure no matter which W/C.

Much better bullets & powder choices available now than there was in the early 60's when I first recall a lot of talk about it in the gun rags.. I'm sure there were those loading the HBWC backwards before that too.

 

[chipking]

With the ones I played with several every many years ago, both cast and swaged, you had to keep the velocity down (650 - 750fps IIRC) or the nose would fragment on impact with the target. At the lower velocities the expansion was very good and consistent but penetration was marginal. I never tried any hard cast but I suspect the results would be a smaller expansion and more likelihood that the nose would fragment on impact with the target.
I was never able to get any kind of reliable performance at +P velocities which was really OK by me because part of the reason I was playing with the load was for recoil sensitive folks and air-weight guns.
I will say that when done right the results are impressive with a VERY light recoil and blast.
Chip King

 

[OKFC05]

This was new and exciting---30-40 years ago. Any of the modern defense loads are vastly superior.

 

[Pisgah]

This was new and exciting---30-40 years ago. Any of the modern defense loads are vastly superior.

Actually, more like 50-60 years ago. They work OK, but there's much better to be had these days. ;-)

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

If such rounds were effective SD loads, don't you think that every major ammo manufacturer would have introduced such a product?

It goes to show you that there are still novice and ill-informed shooters that believe that reverse HBWC bullets are adequate SD loads.

There are plenty of street proven SD loads in 38Spl available on the market that people don't have to buy such unproven gimmick ammo.

 

[RonS]

About like how my Cherokee compares to a Stryker. In this age of high perfomance hollowpoints there is no need for workarounds like that.

 

[Don 73]

This was new and exciting---30-40 years ago. Any of the modern defense loads are vastly superior.

That's about how long ago I remember reading about using HBWC bullets backwards, I seem to remember that they started to keyhole after a short distance and the skirt separation was also an issue.

 

[Boge]

If such rounds were effective SD loads, don't you think that every major ammo manufacturer would have introduced such a product?

It goes to show you that there are still novice and ill-informed shooters that believe that reverse HBWC bullets are adequate SD loads.

There are plenty of street proven SD loads in 38Spl available on the market that people don't have to buy such unproven gimmick ammo.

I bought two boxes last Summer in Ft. Worth and have shot one box. In my 442 they were super accurate out to 15 yds. with zero keyholing.

Remember that the ammo cos. are in business to make money first. That trumps anything else they may say. The last engineer I talked with at ATK was a functional idiot IMO. As well, Jim Cirillo used a WC type bullet with great success in some of his lauded shootouts. I don't see it so much as "gimmick" ammo, but yet another arrow in the quiver of those who are not 100% sold on "short barrel" .38 ammo. At its worst it's going to act like a WC on flesh which is no bad news. Since it's soft lead it would in all likelihood act like the Rem. +p LSWCHP. Just my two cents.

 

[hotrod150]

I think it would be the ultimate HP. If they work well for you, I dont see any reason for not using them. Esp if they're priced more attractively than the whizbang JHP stuff.
I tried loading some of my own "lead hollow points" by reversing Speer HBWC's over a stout charge of W231, but I got some indications of bullet yawing at the target so didn't pursue it. If the cavity of Atomic's bullets isn't too deep, they wouldn't be as tail-heavy as the reversed Speers and therefore might not have the same instability issues.

 

[M29since14]

Actually, more like 50-60 years ago...

Now wait a minute - really? I remember Dean Grinnell writing about this when I was a lad. He must have thought he was a real devil with some of the goofy stuff he came up with, but I enjoyed it. He was an entertaining writer.

I'd much prefer more modern ammunition. If relying on a handload, the old H&G 051 style bullet with the wide, flat nose running along at about 900 FPS would be nothing to sneeze at.

 

[moxie]

At $38.99/50 from Midway, I wouldn't call them attractively priced, not when you can get 50 Golden Saber 125+Ps for $31.94/50 from ammunitiondepot.com.

And they are unproven.

Just a pricy gimmick.

 

[Nevada Ed]

They have worked over the years............
the bullet in their picture looks like a water or gel test, only.

They did not state that that bullet went through the 4 layer Levi test. Some times this load will plug.... but at over 800 fps it still is a load with lots of energy and have enough penetration.

If all you have is a 148gr HBwc for a SD load, it still beats tossing rocks.

 

[oldman10mm]

I made some of those back in the 70s',yes I'm old. Used a 'duplex' powder load to drive them as wasn't much space left in the 38sp case. Had a problem with leading due to 'ablation'( a term you don't see anymore) solved by putting a very thin foam disc between powder and bullet. Never had a problem with accuracy with either a S&W M36 3" or S&W M19 6".

 

[shouldazagged]

No thanks, I'll stick with the forty-year success record of the FBI load. I hope to try the Speer short-barrel stuff, but until I find and can afford it, the Remington FBI stuff makes me feel secure.

 

[oldman10mm]

I haven't play with those since the 70s',no reason to as ammo has improved compared to back then. Back then it was FMJ and lead RN for revolvers and FMJ for pistols. Lee Jurras started the performance ammo with the 'Super Vel' line. Soon all the manufacturers followed his lead and the ammo we have today is great.

 

[zonker5]

If my butt is on the line I am not going to put my trust in some cobbled up home-brew load. There is too much quality ammunition of proven quality on the market today.

 

[Boge]

I think too many people put altogether more faith in ANY .38 HP than is deserved out of a snubbie.