Homeowners Associations
- Thread starter JustinL
- Start date
Ive seen both ends of the spectrum.One didn't enforce anything and the rental properties became quite shabby.The other was run by retired folks that were very petty.The clincher for me was the incredible amount of money being paid for grounds maintenance to a company that just happened to employ a board member.
1morethan8
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
Why on God's green earth would anyone want to live where you have even more restrictions as to how you live!?
They suck plain and simple. I bought my dream home. 3 car garage. jet tub in the bathroom. Nice man cave/bar room in the basement.
If I leave my boat out of the garage for 3 days I get a nasty letter. If my yard lamp goes out, I get a letter. The third bay on the garage is so short I had to buy a Honda Ridgeline to fit it (had to have 4 seat 4x4). I want to move but I've bought too much **** since I've been here (midlife crises).
If I leave my boat out of the garage for 3 days I get a nasty letter. If my yard lamp goes out, I get a letter. The third bay on the garage is so short I had to buy a Honda Ridgeline to fit it (had to have 4 seat 4x4). I want to move but I've bought too much **** since I've been here (midlife crises).
gregintenn
Member
I would never live anywhere there was a homeowner's association.
If we're talking about a neighborhood where an HOA is needed to get people to mow their lawns paint their house, etc it's gonna be problems anyway. the thing to do is before you buy into a neighborhood take the time to check it out and get a feel for the kind of people that live there.
The mere idea of PAYING someone to tell you how to do on your own property is just stupid to me. All houses do NOT have to look exactly alike or have the same color roof etc. Some of these HOA types are nothing more than power hungry folks that like pushing people around.
We have a really nice neighborhood and the residents take care of their places. Besides that, the City of Deer Park has good rules and ordinances regarding property maintenance. If a home owner or business lets things go too far the city will intervene but It is a rare day when that happens.
When we bought our house here in 1978 HOAs were not all that prevalent. I think they are all over the place now and I'd hate to have to find a place that would be suitable that doesn't have one. If there's a way for a person or small group of people to get control over a large group of people and get paid for it, there are plenty of folks willing to jump on it.
The mere idea of PAYING someone to tell you how to do on your own property is just stupid to me. All houses do NOT have to look exactly alike or have the same color roof etc. Some of these HOA types are nothing more than power hungry folks that like pushing people around.
We have a really nice neighborhood and the residents take care of their places. Besides that, the City of Deer Park has good rules and ordinances regarding property maintenance. If a home owner or business lets things go too far the city will intervene but It is a rare day when that happens.
When we bought our house here in 1978 HOAs were not all that prevalent. I think they are all over the place now and I'd hate to have to find a place that would be suitable that doesn't have one. If there's a way for a person or small group of people to get control over a large group of people and get paid for it, there are plenty of folks willing to jump on it.
All 3 of the houses we've bought I made absolutely SURE that there were no HOA or even CC&Rs. I make the mortgage payments and pay the taxes on the property and I'll be damned if I'll let some nosey nellie tell me what I can and can't do on or with it. Sure you take the risk of neighbors letting their place run down, but that's why you check out the neighbors and neighborhood first. 99% of the people will cut their grass or whatever if two or three neighbors say something to them about it. Besides, most communities have some ordinances that spell out minimum standards on that kind of stuff already in place.
HOAs can be good or bad, depending on what you want. They can protect you from inconsiderate neighbors leaving junk cars and other eyesores around, or they can intervene if a neighbor's dog is driving you nuts, it all depends on what the HOA was set up to do. If you want to do more with the outside than the existing people have done, then you have to do your homework. Look at the association's balance sheet, and review how they're spending the association's money, whether they have reserves, how many deadbeats the others are carrying, whether they've borrowed much, along with the obvious monthly cost.
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I've lived in a lot of places in my life (moved around a lot in my career) and some have had HOAs and some didn't. Some were good, some OK, and some were bad.
A HOA can serve a purpose, if it exists to make sure that normal standards are followed, or things don't happen to degrade or impact the neighborhood as a whole. Of course, that depends on what (and whose) the definition of "normal" is.
From my experience, there are several things to consider:
1) What are the fees are costs of the HOA?
2) What are the restrictions and rules?
3) What services and benefits do they offer? For example, in one community I lived in, the HOA maintained your front yard...mow, edge, trim, and landscape...and you maintained the back. You had some say in the landscaping, but not complete say.
4) What enforcement powers do they have? For example, can they penalize you with monetary fines?
We lived in one HOA neighborhood that could and did prohibit the presence of any inoperable vehicle on the premise, unless it was inside your garage, fully hidden from view. I had parked my truck in the driveway one night, and thieves stole all my tires and wheels...left the truck sitting on cinder blocks. It took several days for the police and insurance processes to complete and for me to be able to get new tires and wheels put on it, and about the 3rd day I got a notice and a fine from the HOA. I explained it to them, and they waived the fine if I got it fixed immediately, which I did. In retrospect, I should have let them know when it happened...and while annoying in the situation, I did appreciate the general prohibition that kept the neighborhood from being cluttered up with junk cars.
One of the things I have mixed feelings about is the common prohibition on paint and decor. I tend to think it's a good thing to prohibit garish colors on houses, like neon purple for example. While few people opt for objectionable colors, who is to say that what someone thinks is a pretty color is wrong? Of course, if you live next door to the purple house, and it affects your property value, then it is your business too.
A HOA can serve a purpose, if it exists to make sure that normal standards are followed, or things don't happen to degrade or impact the neighborhood as a whole. Of course, that depends on what (and whose) the definition of "normal" is.
From my experience, there are several things to consider:
1) What are the fees are costs of the HOA?
2) What are the restrictions and rules?
3) What services and benefits do they offer? For example, in one community I lived in, the HOA maintained your front yard...mow, edge, trim, and landscape...and you maintained the back. You had some say in the landscaping, but not complete say.
4) What enforcement powers do they have? For example, can they penalize you with monetary fines?
We lived in one HOA neighborhood that could and did prohibit the presence of any inoperable vehicle on the premise, unless it was inside your garage, fully hidden from view. I had parked my truck in the driveway one night, and thieves stole all my tires and wheels...left the truck sitting on cinder blocks. It took several days for the police and insurance processes to complete and for me to be able to get new tires and wheels put on it, and about the 3rd day I got a notice and a fine from the HOA. I explained it to them, and they waived the fine if I got it fixed immediately, which I did. In retrospect, I should have let them know when it happened...and while annoying in the situation, I did appreciate the general prohibition that kept the neighborhood from being cluttered up with junk cars.
One of the things I have mixed feelings about is the common prohibition on paint and decor. I tend to think it's a good thing to prohibit garish colors on houses, like neon purple for example. While few people opt for objectionable colors, who is to say that what someone thinks is a pretty color is wrong? Of course, if you live next door to the purple house, and it affects your property value, then it is your business too.
the ringo kid
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My sentiments exactly. Currently im an apartment dweller and hoa-free.
SmokeStack Lightning
Member
First crib I bought was a Condo w/ "Homeowner's Association" which required monthly dues.
For the first year dues were reasonable, @ $45 per month.
Then the 'Association Board' decided some maintenance was needed around the buildings and dues increased to $350 per month.
To make matters worse, when I started researching what exactly was going on, I found that most of the 'Association' board members were contracting the work to THEMSELVES, even tho none were qualified to be preforming the work that they decided needed to be done.
So basically, the 'Association Board' were charging more dues, so they could pay themselves more.
I moved shortly after that, but I learned a valuable lesson.
For the first year dues were reasonable, @ $45 per month.
Then the 'Association Board' decided some maintenance was needed around the buildings and dues increased to $350 per month.
To make matters worse, when I started researching what exactly was going on, I found that most of the 'Association' board members were contracting the work to THEMSELVES, even tho none were qualified to be preforming the work that they decided needed to be done.
So basically, the 'Association Board' were charging more dues, so they could pay themselves more.
I moved shortly after that, but I learned a valuable lesson.
One of my brothers and my sister live with homeowners associations. My brother in Florida in 1/8th acre lot development type neighborhood. My sister semi-rural New York, but about 12 houses on 5 acre lots in a cul-de-sac. School board member neighbor decided a homeowners association would be a fabulous idea.
Both had issues putting in pools. My brother was fined for painting his front door red, not an approved shade of red. My sister's neighbor moved in and got 6 chicks from the local hardware store. Forbidden under the rules. Sister's husband is also forbidden from parking his pickup in the driveway, must be garaged. This is a regular truck, not a work truck, no company name on it, simply his daily transportation Tacoma.
I will never live in a place that has a homeowners association.
Both had issues putting in pools. My brother was fined for painting his front door red, not an approved shade of red. My sister's neighbor moved in and got 6 chicks from the local hardware store. Forbidden under the rules. Sister's husband is also forbidden from parking his pickup in the driveway, must be garaged. This is a regular truck, not a work truck, no company name on it, simply his daily transportation Tacoma.
I will never live in a place that has a homeowners association.
Being a realtor I am very familiar with a number of different ones. I also hear stories from all over the country since most of my clients come from different areas and are relocating.
In the Greenville area, they really aren't too bad and really are a good thing for the neighborhoods. But I hear horror stories from different parts of the country especially from some of the Florida and California areas.
Best thing to do is get a copy of the HOA covenants/restrictions and review the carefully!
In the Greenville area, they really aren't too bad and really are a good thing for the neighborhoods. But I hear horror stories from different parts of the country especially from some of the Florida and California areas.
Best thing to do is get a copy of the HOA covenants/restrictions and review the carefully!
"Figuratively speaking, I like to be able to step out back and pee off my porch if I desire and that is an ABSOLUTE no no with a HOA."
Depends on the HOA. I'm in one, and can water my front or backyard as I please.
Front yard:
Back yard:
Depends on the HOA. I'm in one, and can water my front or backyard as I please.
Front yard:
Back yard:
OP
Thanks again everybody.
vito
US Veteran
I didn't see any mention yet of the risk of the HOA changing the rules and not having any "grandfathered" rights. I know of a case where an avid motorcyclist who had owned his home for several years suddenly faced a change of the HOA rules which now banned motorcycles from the entire subdivision (supposedly due to excessive noise concerns). Apparently the HOA had the right to change the rules and they were binding. He was given 90 days to either get the bike out of the subdivision or sell his home and leave totally. Be careful.
lonejacklarry
US Veteran
One more in case you're still on the fence.
My older boy and his wife moved into a nice new neighborhood with several community pools. In the covenants and restrictions was the stipulation that if the pool lounge chairs were full when a HOA board member arrived at the pool, the occupants were to give up the lounge chairs to the board member.
These things tend to be run by the same people that were hall monitors in grade school.
My older boy and his wife moved into a nice new neighborhood with several community pools. In the covenants and restrictions was the stipulation that if the pool lounge chairs were full when a HOA board member arrived at the pool, the occupants were to give up the lounge chairs to the board member.
These things tend to be run by the same people that were hall monitors in grade school.
Seems like HOAs are what happened after townships stopped doing what they were originally made to do: maintain a reasonable, safe community.
Little "sub-cities" within cities. My big peeve is giant cities. Why do they annex the small towns and concentrate and centralize the power? Oh, it's for the good of the masses.
yeah, right.
Government sprawl, huge out of touch administrators, areas run by gangs- either the crips/bloods style gang or the uppercrust suburb dweller on a power trip. Seems like they all have an agenda and that involves restricting someones behavior out of fear. HoA fees are nothing more than a tax, [like property taxes that are arbitrarily raised (where I live) to support a low income neighborhood that represents a big voter base. They call it "robin hood"] Big cities don't work because they can't!
I don't think HoAs are necessarily bad,they were formed as a defense against a bad city government.... it's about the human beings running it.
No offense to any individual here meant by my opinionated, separatist, isolationist, uncooperative, cynical and cranky rant.
Little "sub-cities" within cities. My big peeve is giant cities. Why do they annex the small towns and concentrate and centralize the power? Oh, it's for the good of the masses.
yeah, right.Government sprawl, huge out of touch administrators, areas run by gangs- either the crips/bloods style gang or the uppercrust suburb dweller on a power trip. Seems like they all have an agenda and that involves restricting someones behavior out of fear. HoA fees are nothing more than a tax, [like property taxes that are arbitrarily raised (where I live) to support a low income neighborhood that represents a big voter base. They call it "robin hood"] Big cities don't work because they can't!
I don't think HoAs are necessarily bad,they were formed as a defense against a bad city government.... it's about the human beings running it.
No offense to any individual here meant by my opinionated, separatist, isolationist, uncooperative, cynical and cranky rant.
blackpowder30
Member
I have lived in a HOA for 24 years. Large place with 4 lakes, 12 acres to 90 acres, all with launching ramps and picnic areas, covered pavillians and sandy beach swimming area. 240 homes on 8 miles of roads.
I spent 12 years on the board. Did all the legal work including going to court.
My no1 learning is that those who do most of the complaining are the same folks that have never read their deed or the HOA covenants and have both, and never come to the meetings or community activities. So why did they chose to live here? Beats me.
I spent 12 years on the board. Did all the legal work including going to court.
My no1 learning is that those who do most of the complaining are the same folks that have never read their deed or the HOA covenants and have both, and never come to the meetings or community activities. So why did they chose to live here? Beats me.
smokindog
Member
Well said TexMex but I'd modify just a bit. Look at the trend/growth of "professional management companies" and their iron fist rule of HOAs. Principal Management has had the contract for my past two HOAs and I have nothing good to say about them. These companies perpetuate the laws and governance of HOAs!!!!
Next point
Someone asked why do people move into HOAs. It's simple around here. You have very little choice as most every locality now mandates them on the developer. Also, said management companies have had their attorneys change documents over the past 15 years as they grew to REMOVE the dissolution clauses that used to exist.
I'm not saying they CAN'T be beneficial but my experience is all bad. If I want to accomplish something with my neighbors, I do NOT need to pay a management Company or be forced to do so!!! There is profit motive for the management company and their sub-contractors, cost motive from the City/Town to offload maintenance costs on homeowners, and power trips by the few who always complain about it being a volunteer job and we should be grateful they do this for us (HOWEVER, they ALWAYS seem to seek re-election)! AND the topper is no state or local agency claims jurisdiction over the private government!
Look at the voting margins they require to hold meetings and make changes. My last two were 10% of the community. I don't know about y'all but I rarely can make a meeting schedule for 6PM during the week, especially schedule just a couple weeks ahead.
YES, I HATE/LOATHE/DESPISE/REJECT HOAs
CAI attorney stalwart defends HOA Land private constitutions and so-called bill of rights | HOA Constitutional Government
Below is a note (and a study) I sent our board a couple years ago when they wanted a special assessment to cover some repairs in the sum of about $100K. The board was advised by the management company to not respond and they did NOT, I know, shocking!!! BTW, on top to the $10K for the management company, we pay about $5K annually in insurance and legal support for the board (about 150 homes).
------------------------
The board and management company toss around the "value prop" of the HOA quite a bit without any data. Here's some hard data to counter that. We're paying about $10K to keep Principal Management on board and IMO it's wasted money. In the past 3 years, that would have paid for 1/3 of the repairs and annualized would probably maintain our neighborhood. I've done some digging and some of our surrounding HOAs are self managed without issues. I've proposed WE do this before but it was summarily dismissed. I ask it be re-visited immediately.
HOUSTON ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® RELEASES ITS FIRST LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES SURVEY
You're response and rationale for how you plan to address this are requested.
----------------------------------------
Next point
Someone asked why do people move into HOAs. It's simple around here. You have very little choice as most every locality now mandates them on the developer. Also, said management companies have had their attorneys change documents over the past 15 years as they grew to REMOVE the dissolution clauses that used to exist.
I'm not saying they CAN'T be beneficial but my experience is all bad. If I want to accomplish something with my neighbors, I do NOT need to pay a management Company or be forced to do so!!! There is profit motive for the management company and their sub-contractors, cost motive from the City/Town to offload maintenance costs on homeowners, and power trips by the few who always complain about it being a volunteer job and we should be grateful they do this for us (HOWEVER, they ALWAYS seem to seek re-election)! AND the topper is no state or local agency claims jurisdiction over the private government!
Look at the voting margins they require to hold meetings and make changes. My last two were 10% of the community. I don't know about y'all but I rarely can make a meeting schedule for 6PM during the week, especially schedule just a couple weeks ahead.
YES, I HATE/LOATHE/DESPISE/REJECT HOAs
CAI attorney stalwart defends HOA Land private constitutions and so-called bill of rights | HOA Constitutional Government
Below is a note (and a study) I sent our board a couple years ago when they wanted a special assessment to cover some repairs in the sum of about $100K. The board was advised by the management company to not respond and they did NOT, I know, shocking!!! BTW, on top to the $10K for the management company, we pay about $5K annually in insurance and legal support for the board (about 150 homes).
------------------------
The board and management company toss around the "value prop" of the HOA quite a bit without any data. Here's some hard data to counter that. We're paying about $10K to keep Principal Management on board and IMO it's wasted money. In the past 3 years, that would have paid for 1/3 of the repairs and annualized would probably maintain our neighborhood. I've done some digging and some of our surrounding HOAs are self managed without issues. I've proposed WE do this before but it was summarily dismissed. I ask it be re-visited immediately.
HOUSTON ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS® RELEASES ITS FIRST LEGISLATIVE PRIORITIES SURVEY
- 40 percent believe their Homeowners Association (HOA) mostly preserves the quality of their neighborhood and protects their rights as property owners, while 47 percent believe they are only "somewhat" protected.
- 83 percent would support continued legislative efforts to oversee the activities of HOAs.
You're response and rationale for how you plan to address this are requested.
----------------------------------------
Seems like HOAs are what happened after townships stopped doing what they were originally made to do: maintain a reasonable, safe community.
Little "sub-cities" within cities. My big peeve is giant cities. Why do they annex the small towns and concentrate and centralize the power? Oh, it's for the good of the masses.
Government sprawl, huge out of touch administrators, areas run by gangs- either the crips/bloods style gang or the uppercrust suburb dweller on a power trip. Seems like they all have an agenda and that involves restricting someones behavior out of fear. HoA fees are nothing more than a tax, [like property taxes that are arbitrarily raised (where I live) to support a low income neighborhood that represents a big voter base. They call it "robin hood"] Big cities don't work because they can't!
I don't think HoAs are necessarily bad,they were formed as a defense against a bad city government.... it's about the human beings running it.
No offense to any individual here meant by my opinionated, separatist, isolationist, uncooperative, cynical and cranky rant.
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