Sights

[cyphertext]

Shoulda figured that out myself! What is the difference between a TRS-25 and PA MicroDot anyway? Can't seem to understand I guess.

Just different brands... Take Jim up on his offer. Mount the TRS-25 up and go shoot it.

Really nice of you to make that offer Jim!

 

[RedNeck Jim]

What is the difference between a TRS-25 and PA MicroDot anyway? Can't seem to understand I guess.

About the same difference as between Pepsi & Coke. Different brands of an almost identical product. I will state I haven't used the PA.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Mounted on a 15-22... the difference between a $600 Aimpoint H1 and a $99 PA MicroDot for fair weather range purposes is about zero.

The differences would become apparent when you began to thrash the equipment. Dropping the rifle optic first on a rock or smacking up against a tree, inclement weather or dunking it in sea water getting on boat...

Now once you get into magnified optics the clarity, precision adjustment and sheer pleasure of the view with high-end optics for range use can be significant over that of dime store scopes. 1x red dot... not so much.

Actual cost difference? That's debatable. Aimpoint and EOTech retain much of their value. Dime store optics aren't worth hardly anything used. So the real cost difference is negligible.



PA on my 15-22. H1 on my AR.

 

[JessicaB]

I have the same issue which forces me to shoot left handed. The same condition makes it hard for me to use magnified scopes. I just sometimes struggle to get a good sight picture.

However, with a red dot, I have no issues... besides still needing to shoot left handed. I have no problem quickly acquiring the target. I have removed my backup folding sights as I just never use them. My old eyes don't sight thru them well & they just take up rail space. For me and my eyes, a red dot is the best option & when I need magnification, I add on my flip to side 3x Primary Arms magnifier.

I suggest starting with a TRS-25. It is a great optic at a great price. Then if you later find a little more jingle in your pocket, then you can add something like the Aimpoint Pro that I use... and love.

I have a TRS-25 sitting around & if you wish, I can send it to you to try out, assuming you don't have access to one locally. Send me a PM if you want to do so.

Thanks for the offer but I don't know when I'll be able to get out to the range. The weather has been nothing but a pain lately and it's been too cold to go out to the range. Usually it's in the 50's to maybe 60's now and it's only in the 40's to maybe 50's.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

Thanks for the offer but I don't know when I'll be able to get out to the range. The weather has been nothing but a pain lately and it's been too cold to go out to the range. Usually it's in the 50's to maybe 60's now and it's only in the 40's to maybe 50's.

Ha! In the 70s here with lots of sun. Will be nice for the baby chicks coming tomorrow.

Offer is good if you ever need to see it.

 

[tomcatt51]

I am hopefully going be looking at some red dots next Saturday...

Best thing you can do. There's alot of well meaning help here but it's not the same as looking at optics hands on...

It's hard to spend money on expensive (good) optics but worth doing. Good stuff you keep even if you don't keep the gun. I call them "forever" parts. They stay around, the cheap stuff just accumulates in drawers or boxes and gets sold off for whatever you can get for it.

Red dots or optics are the salvation of "old eyes". The better stuff has better optics and gives a better sight picture. Important with "old eyes". Younger eyes are much more tolerant of poorer optics...

 

[IceStone]

When you do go looking through various optics make sure you look through some of the higher value ones as well to see if their is any and how much difference between the clarity of the dot.
I have a Burris Fastfire 3 which is by no means inexpensive, but I still get the scrambled eggs effect when looking through it.
I also have the Trijicon Tripower with the red chevron which is very crisp and a Docter RDS which is also a very crisp 7 MOA dot.
Not sure exactly why the Fastfire is not as clear as the others, perhaps the dot size, technology or just the quality in general.

 

[JessicaB]

Would a larger dot be better with astigmatisms? If a larger dot would be better would that mean getting a higher quality sight or are there any medium-quality sights that have larger dots?

 

[Majorlk]

About the same difference as between Pepsi & Coke. Different brands of an almost identical product. I will state I haven't used the PA.

Heresy!!!!!

Wash your fingers and keyboard with lye soap!!!!

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Would a larger dot be better with astigmatisms? If a larger dot would be better would that mean getting a higher quality sight or are there any medium-quality sights that have larger dots?

Forget the notion that a high-dollar dot will look better. It won't.

This is a dime store Primary Arms MicroDot. I got this pic by putting the camera lens right up against the optic glass and capped the other side. The dot is perfectly round. But just because the dot is round does not mean that you will see it as such. While looking through the optic you may see a slightly irregular shape, comet with a tail, cluster of grapes or wheel with spokes. Nothing is going to substitute your eyes telling you the truth.

A larger 5moa dot may be better for you, maybe not. An EOTech 1moa dot may be better for you, maybe not. A 3moa dot may be the worst of the worst, maybe not. See above underlined words... read it a few times.. then go back and read it again. . I will say this... I've never heard of a bullseye pistol shooter complaining about an irregular shaped 8moa. But that's a bit large for a rifle shooter and they are holding the dot quite a bit further away too.

 

[tomcatt51]

The club I shoot with has a bunch of "old eyes" including mine. We pass around guns with red dots on them pretty regularly getting opinions on which ones have, and don't have, crisp dots.

The two consistent "winners" are C-mores and UltraDot Matchdots.

C-More Railway Reflex Sight 8 MOA Red Dot Integral Picatinny Mount

UltraDot Matchdot II Red Dot Sight 30mm Tube 1x 2 4 6 8 MOA Dot

I have 2 15-22s. They're for NSSF (Ruger) Rimfire Challenge. Ones a back-up. They both have C-mores with dots that are crisp appearing to my "old eyes".

 

[SpicyTunaRoll]

How does the Aimpoint, or Trijicon, or anything other high dollar optic increase their "combat effectiveness" over a TRS-25 or a Primary Arms red dot at across the room distances?

just because my weapons are going to be deployed within room distances, doesnt mean they dont see the outside world. i bring my equipment to outdoor ranges all the time; once a month usually. and i also take classes.

In the real world, equipment gets dropped/banged around/falls/bumped/hit/etc. If an $75 optic cant hold up to basic abuse, and still maintain an effective zero = its going to make a good shooter, into a horrible one.
Are cheaper red dots good looking, useful, and practical out of the box? HELL YA. but how is that optic going to perform 6-24 months from now? what if you drop it/hit it = $100 down the toilet. now you go and spend another $100 to replace the optic you just broke(and liked). Well now you are at roughly 50% of an Aimpoint PRO(patrol rifle optic). (laruetactical: $416)

plus: something like an aimpoint also has a 10 year warranty on all of its products (if used for personal use).

i know 1 rule: a rifle is only as good as its zero(and operator). i just cant trust my rifles' zero to just any low-brand optic. id rather just use dependable/trusty irons at that point(and save for a quality optic).

 

[cyphertext]

just because my weapons are going to be deployed within room distances, doesnt mean they dont see the outside world. i bring my equipment to outdoor ranges all the time; once a month usually. and i also take classes.

In the real world, equipment gets dropped/banged around/falls/bumped/hit/etc. If an $75 optic cant hold up to basic abuse, and still maintain an effective zero = its going to make a good shooter, into a horrible one.
Are cheaper red dots good looking, useful, and practical out of the box? HELL YA. but how is that optic going to perform 6-24 months from now? what if you drop it/hit it = $100 down the toilet. now you go and spend another $100 to replace the optic you just broke(and liked). Well now you are at roughly 50% of an Aimpoint PRO(patrol rifle optic). (laruetactical: $416)

plus: something like an aimpoint also has a 10 year warranty on all of its products (if used for personal use).

i know 1 rule: a rifle is only as good as its zero(and operator). i just cant trust my rifles' zero to just any low-brand optic. id rather just use dependable/trusty irons at that point(and save for a quality optic).

My son has had the Bushnell TRS-25 on his rifle for over three years, since he was 11. It goes to the range, gets thrown in the back of the pickup, thrown in the rack on the jeep, thrown on the four wheeler... bumping around on dirt roads and across pastures at the lease in all of the above vehicles and it still works. Not saying you can't break one, but they are pretty stout and stand up to use and has held zero. His is still working fine. I wouldn't say that we abuse our firearms, but we don't baby them either.

I also have a Millet on my AR-15. I purchased that one on clearance with the expectation that I would try it out to see if I liked using a red dot, and replace it with something better when it dies. Well, it is still on there, and my AR-15 is my hog hunting rifle. It gets the same use as my son's rifle above, but more. Guess what... that Millet dot is still on there. Hasn't died yet.


I guess we will just have to disagree. I bet most .22lr ARs don't see that much "abuse". From range bag to bench, then back to range bag. You may be the exception, but most are not going to see an advantage.

 

[SpicyTunaRoll]

I bet most .22lr ARs don't see that much "abuse". From range bag to bench, then back to range bag. You may be the exception, but most are not going to see an advantage.

trust me, i am not here to argue or to poo on the lesser priced sights. i just wanted to throw in my point of view for the OP

hey, you just reminded me: scroll to @2:28 in the video
Fighting Rifle Tactical Response - YouTube

 

[cyphertext]

trust me, i am not here to argue or to poo on the lesser priced sights. i just wanted to throw in my point of view for the OP

hey, you just reminded me: scroll to @2:28 in the video
Fighting Rifle Tactical Response - YouTube

Is that you? That looked like an awesome class.

 

[cxwrench]

Put a bushnell trs-25 on it, you won't be disappointed. They are under $100 and are ideal for the 15-22, small and light. IMO it makes no sense to put a high dollar optic on a 22 rifle. If you need a scope the bug buster scope works well also. It fits the tactical look of the rifle and gets good reviews. Save your money for more ammo

I've one of those on my 10-22 and it works great as well. The longest I ever shoot is 100 yd, so it's fine. Both it and the TRS have held up fine so far, and both rifles get transported in a double bag in the back of the truck cab. They've always held zero and functioned.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The one I was looking at was the Cortex Strikefire red dot scope although I think it is discontinued or the same as a red dot. Anyway, I won't know how the dot looks until I look at 'em. I'm hoping that the sight picture will be tolerable and somewhat easy to see. I guess that's the best case scenario.

If you are still considering the StrikeFire, Primary Arms is selling it with a 3x magnifier and both mounts for a package price of $130.

Vortex StrikeFire Bright Red Dot PA Magnifier Bundle

 

[Racefan3n88]

I've one of those on my 10-22 and it works great as well. The longest I ever shoot is 100 yd, so it's fine. Both it and the TRS have held up fine so far, and both rifles get transported in a double bag in the back of the truck cab. They've always held zero and functioned.

Ya, I have the bushnell on the 15-22 and a bug buster on a Sig 522. The Sig shoots tighter groups for me at 100 yards and I need some magnification at that range so it works well on that rifle. I did have the bug buster on the 15-22 for a while though. I transport both rifles in a double tactical rifle bag to the range and have never had a problem with either the trs-25 or bug buster losing zero either. I really like both

 

[JessicaB]

If you are still considering the StrikeFire, Primary Arms is selling it with a 3x magnifier and both mounts for a package price of $130.

Vortex StrikeFire Bright Red Dot PA Magnifier Bundle

Sounds like a great offer. My only concern for the Vortex is accidentally turning off and on the power since the buttons, etc are basically a projection. I've seen on youtube that it can be mounted so that you can't accidentally turn off and on the power. Otherwise I've heard nothing but good reviews about this.

 

[cyphertext]

Sounds like a great offer. My only concern for the Vortex is accidentally turning off and on the power since the buttons, etc are basically a projection. I've seen on youtube that it can be mounted so that you can't accidentally turn off and on the power. Otherwise I've heard nothing but good reviews about this.

You are so over thinking this. Keep an extra battery in your range bag... problem solved.

Besides, it has an auto shut off after 6 hours.