Jard trigger issues - help!

[Bat Guano]

I have a Jard non-adjustable in my 15-22. My notes of 4/16/13 read as follows:

"Installed the Jard non-adjustable trigger that I took out (of another AR). Much trial and error fitting required to achieve proper letoff release, but I got it where I wanted it to be. Tail of trigger needed to be taken down to allow sufficient trigger movement. Unfortunately at that point it also allows the safety to be put on with the hammer down, which is not right. However this being a .22 practice weapon, it is not a real issue as it might be on a 5.56 serious piece. The safety engages and disengages properly and prevents hammer fall when cocked. Had to cut the 3 pound trigger spring off one coil as it was stacking and preventing full movement. The average of 5 hammer falls on the gauge was 3 pounds, 5.8 ozs. Hammer spring seems a bit light so may have ignition trouble. If so I can swap in a heavier hammer spring."

The above was written 2 years and 700 rounds ago; have had zero problems with the trigger assembly since that time.

My guess is that while the Jard N/A triggers work well in ARs (I have put in several) the firing group well in the polymer reciever S&W 15-22 is just enough different to give some fitting problems. Anyway, the above procedures worked for me and I'm quite happy with the results.

Hope this helps a bit.

I find I like Geisselles better nowadays...

 

[tomo2]

I have a Jard non-adjustable in my 15-22. My notes of 4/16/13 read as follows:
"....... Tail of trigger needed to be taken down to allow sufficient trigger movement. ......... Had to cut the 3 pound trigger spring off one coil as it was stacking and preventing full movement. "..

Thankyou for the information, very helpful.

So you cut a coil off of the trigger spring (part 4 of diagram at the top) and modified the tail end of the trigger; any more details on this i,e how much materiel did you take off and from where? I'm guessing that this changed the angle of engagment for the sear and disconnect?

Also found this thread which has some interesting info in (specifically post 26)
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...03-light-primer-strikes-lighter-triggers.html

 

[trebor127]

i have read light strikes and fitting problems with several

makes of AR triggers fitted into the 1522,due to weaker

hammer springs than the 1522 needs

i did not want to start experimenting with what would or

would not work in my rifle due to as you know,getting hold of

spare bits to try out...........reading on the forum quite a few

are using the CMC drop in unit with no problems,so i have one

on order with a straight trigger and in FDE

keith

 

[tomo2]

....reading on the forum quite a few are using the CMC drop in unit with no problems,so i have one on order with a straight trigger and in FDE
keith

I looked at the CMC drop in triggers as well, however the only place that I could find one available here was at MidwayUK and they wanted £240.00 plus shipping (about $400.00 + shipping)

I'm off to the range tonight for another attempt with the Jard. I've polished the rails and hammer face and I've pulled out my 3lb yellow JP spring from my .223 to try as well. Fingers crossed

 

[RedNeck Jim]

Much trial and error fitting required to achieve proper letoff release, but I got it where I wanted it to be. Tail of trigger needed to be taken down to allow sufficient trigger movement. Unfortunately at that point it also allows the safety to be put on with the hammer down, which is not right. However this being a .22 practice weapon, it is not a real issue as it might be on a 5.56 serious piece.

Thankyou for the information, very helpful.

So you cut a coil off of the trigger spring (part 4 of diagram at the top) and modified the tail end of the trigger; any more details on this i,e how much materiel did you take off and from where? I'm guessing that this changed the angle of engagment for the sear and disconnect?

Just my opinion, but the trigger group is too critical for safely using a firearm to have backyard mechanics doing such adjustments. I even doubt if I would let a gunsmith make these type changes to a factory trigger. He would have to demonstrate he had done this a lot.

If it were me & I couldn't afford a better replacement trigger... I'd stick with the stock one. Last year I tried a Timney drop in & it was safe & didn't cause any of your problems, but I did get a lot of failures. I got rid of it & went with the CMC drop in, and have had zero issues since. The CMC dropped in easier & the hammer hits real hard. I know there are other triggers that work well in the 15-22, so why attempt to remake one that doesn't? Stubborn? Me too, but safety comes first. Not enough money? Been there, but would stick with the factory trigger until I could afford something that improves function & remains completely safe.

Yes, you might be able to come up with an adjustment that works, but how will you ever know how close you are to some safety issue? Might be safe for 5000 rounds but what happens with wear? That would scare me greatly.

 

[trebor127]

I looked at the CMC drop in triggers as well, however the only place that I could find one available here was at MidwayUK and they wanted £240.00 plus shipping (about $400.00 + shipping)

I'm off to the range tonight for another attempt with the Jard. I've polished the rails and hammer face and I've pulled out my 3lb yellow JP spring from my .223 to try as well. Fingers crossed

your not looking in the right place for the CMC trigger

if mine comes good i will share where its from

keith

 

[trebor127]

as Jim says safety first is a must

before Dunblane i had a Coonan model B .357mag that i used

for speed shooting......i had the safety removed in case i had

foul ups .....but it was frowned upon at the club,it was a

simple fix but to be safe i sent it to york guns for them to sort.

IMO just leave well alone

keith

 

[Bat Guano]

Tomo2:

Just pulled the 15-22 out to verify what I did with the tail of the trigger. By the "tail" I mean the rear stepped-down portion of the trigger. My Jard was purchased in about 2007 and has only a single such extension, whereas your diagram shows a split double tail. I had previously run that trigger in a Bushmaster AR where it worked ok; but it would engage to the "on" position with the hammer forward. Although it was only a spare rifle I did not care for the chance that it could concievably prevent the bolt from being retracted. The rifle worked normally in all other respects. When I sold it I took out the Jard and reinstalled the original parts. By that time I had already taken a little material off the tail and the trigger kit was no longer returnable anyway.

The original trigger in the 15-22 was acceptable but not ideal. Since I had this spare Jard lying around I decided to try fitting it up to the .22. The main problem I encountered right away was that the aforementioned "tail" contacted the safety's shaft and prevented proper disconnector and sear engagement. At his point I figured I had nothing much to lose and carefully removed some material from the top of the "tail" until I got proper trigger engagement and function. I was also able to set the backlash where I wanted in the process. The cutting of the #4 coil spring was a self-evident step and the last thing I had to do. As I recall I had a JP yellow spring in the gun for a short time, got a few misfires, and went back to stock springs.

I looked into installing a standard metal AR safety and found dimensional differences between it and the stock S&W safety. In addition I also think that the 15-22 trigger group well in general has some other anomalies. I have installed about 5 of these triggers. I did have one that was not quite right and Brownell's replaced it. One additional thing I notice is that your schematic shows a "pin keeper" part #9. I've never seen one of those, and quite frankly don't see the point. My stock Jard pins stay in place just fine as they are. They do appear short as the 15-22 lower is a bit wider than a 5.56 receiver, though.

The other Jards I installed have worked fine in all respects. Considering that everyone and his dog makes ARs and AR parts, it's remarkable that things fit together as well as they do...

My latest venture has been to put a Geiselle G2S into a new AR. I like it very much, so will probably lean that way in the future.

BTW--maybe the term "backyard mechanic", like the term "gunsmith" needs to be examined a bit more carefully. I have seen some remarkably good work done by amateurs, and likewise seen a few guns botched up by the rich and famous.

As Inspector Callahan said, "A man's gotta know his limitations."

 

[tomo2]

Just back from the range.

I tried the Jard trigger again, this time with a yellow JP 3lb hammer spring. I'd also polished the rails that the bolt runs on and the face of the hammer itself. CCI standard ammo seemed to run okay, I shot 100 rounds and had maybe 4 or 5 failures to reset the hammer. It still struggled with CCI minimags and Blazer though.

My last option seems to be to sand down the trigger tail and cut the trigger spring as detailed above. I have for now though reinstalled the original trigger and intend to leave it alone for a while.

I'm lucky in that all the work I do gets checked by a friend of mine who's a full time gunsmith. The trigger seems a pretty simple system to understand, it only has a few moving parts and a couple of springs. That's what makes it so frustrating when it doesn't work!

 

[tat2dchad]

take it to a gunsmith and see if he has an answer or can do it without issues....all this over and over trial and error seems like more hassle than its worth.

at least you will find out if its the gun, you or whatever

 

[Majorlk]

take it to a gunsmith and see if he has an answer or can do it without issues....all this over and over trial and error seems like more hassle than its worth.

at least you will find out if its the gun, you or whatever

Make sure the gunsmith is qualified to work on AR-style FCGs. Many so-called gunsmiths are nothing more than butchers when it comes to triggers.

Personally, the Jard should be returned to factory condition and proceed from there. Doing spring cutting and filing on trigger parts needs to be left to someone who absolutely knows what they are doing!!!