CCW: Keep one in the pipe?

[RalphMP9FS]

I think you make a very good point. If my new M&P9 had a manual safety, then I probably would want to carry it chambered. IMO, any loaded, non-chambered weapon is a game changer. If you have limited training, which is probably the case for 80% of all those who carry, one careless mistake can change your life or someone else's forever.

My response was directed to those few arrogant friends over here not to the people with the advice like yours.

We agree the BEST and MOST EFFICIENT way to carry a SD weapon is LOADED CHAMBER method...

But what is at discussion here is that some people confusing this carry method as if it is the ONLY WAY to carry.
Therefore they say stuff like "if it is not one in the chamber, don't carry at all" or "it is a useless paperweight".
My disagreement with their statements!

Who knows, maybe I don't have the infinite wisdom like some other people here who claims they've been shooting since the invention of the gun powder.

I remind them the story of Dr. Susan Gratia-Hupp's at Luby's shooting incident.
Do they think if she had her gun that day, she could've saved her parents' lives?
Do they think in her situation it could make any difference if she was carrying either way?

How about if you were sitting at row 17 in the Aurora movie theater?
If your preferred method of carry is with an unloaded chamber, would you prefer your gun to be left at home because you listened them or would you like it to be on your hip because you listened me?

Another friend telling a story in order to show us how it could be bad for an investigator who carries C3 when he was jumped by the rioters.
Still, even his that story our C3 guy ended up being OK.

But, for God's sake if you're going to be in a situation where rioters may jump you put one in the darn chamber before you
get there even if it wasn't your preferred carry method.
That's #1..

But the most important part of the story is that our C3 guy were jumped by UNARMED people...
I mean if those two rioters were armed and unloading their rounds into that investigator what kind of advantage he could've had if he had one or two or even three guns on him with loaded chambers?

BGs will always have the time advantage on their side because they know when their attack will happen.
It is a surprise for the victim. BGs generally don't advertise in advance.
But if you think you're being vigilant at all times and no chance a BG can come even close to you think again.
Most BGs in these days don't look like BGs.
Would you run away from him if the Boston bomber guy (younger brother) was walking by you?
Would you draw and yell STOP to the Santa Barbara guy as soon as he gets out of his brand new black BMW?
If you are their first victim of these guys you're screwed, if not, you have time to duck, cover, rack, change magazines and whatever else to defend yourself where carrying a gun with a loaded or unloaded chamber won't make a difference...
As long as you're carrying!

That's my point!

 

[Llando88]

Question from a new shooter.

I'm not ready to CC yet because I don't feel like I have the training and experience yet.

But.

I do want to start moving toward a more 'ready' condition at home.

My pistol is usually locked in a case inside the safe, with all ammo locked in a separate case.

I want to move from this condition (locked up) to 'more ready'.

My thinking is to load a magazine with a proven SD round, insert the mag, then place it in a sturdy retention holster e.g Safariland 7377 for the night, near the bedside.

Thoughts?

Should I have a round chambered in this case or no?

Pistol is a FS9mm sku 209301.

 

[cmort666]

Condition 3:
1. Arson Inspector- during an investigation (riot) he returned to his vehicle to obtain an needed item. Two rioters jumped Him and took Him to the ground. During the scuffle He was able to draw is weapon but was unable to fire due to His other hand holding off the rioters. Luckly two Patrol Officers came by and ended what could have been bad news for Mr. Condition

This is PRECISELY what WOULD have happened to the guy in the Dayton gas station who got jumped by the two meth heads had he been carrying with an empty chamber. Of course he had no backup.

Fortunately, he had a round in the chamber and managed to separate himself from the attacker in front just long enough to draw and fire. That assailant got perforated twice and fell to the ground, incapacitated. His accomplice took off running.

The victim has NO doubt that things would have been VERY different had he been carrying with an empty chamber.

 

[cmort666]

Question from a new shooter.

I'm not ready to CC yet because I don't feel like I have the training and experience yet.

But.

I do want to start moving toward a more 'ready' condition at home.

My pistol is usually locked in a case inside the safe, with all ammo locked in a separate case.

I want to move from this condition (locked up) to 'more ready'.

My thinking is to load a magazine with a proven SD round, insert the mag, then place it in a sturdy retention holster e.g Safariland 7377 for the night, near the bedside.

Thoughts?

Should I have a round chambered in this case or no?

Pistol is a FS9mm sku 209301.

I think you would be better off with one of those one gun safes with the keypad or biometric access.

A retention holster (and most holsters in general) is meant to be employed from your body. Have you tried that particular holster OFF your body? The odds are it's going to take two hands to get it out of the holster.

In either case, once again, I wouldn't recommend counting on being able to defend yourself with an unloaded firearm. Home invaders are no more disposed to wait for you to chamber a round than carjackers or muggers. Are you going to count on your remembering (or being allowed) to chamber a round with an intruder in your bedroom?

Two hands to deploy the firearm, PLUS two hands to load it is giving an assailant WAY too much of an edge, at least in my opinion.

 

[JohnSW]

I can come up with NO situation where it is "better" to carry in C3. please correct me.

Locally, someone who was legally carrying managed to accidentally shoot himself in the shopping mall bathroom. I bet that he wishes that he didn't have a round in the chamber.

 

[cmort666]

Locally, someone who was legally carrying managed to accidentally shoot himself in the shopping mall bathroom. I bet that he wishes that he didn't have a round in the chamber.

I'll bet he wishes even more that he'd learned how to handle a firearm safely, especially HIS firearm.

 

[JohnSW]

I'll bet he wishes even more that he'd learned how to handle a firearm safely, especially HIS firearm.

Even highly trained police officers sometimes have negligent discharges.

"Ind. police chief accidentally shoots self at gun shop"

"It got tangled in my clothing," Counceller said of his weapon. "I was wearing a sweatshirt and a fleece jacket. I felt (the gun) [Glock] go in the holster and I pushed it, but it was tangled in the material which caused it to discharge. The bullet went into my leg and then into the floor."

"If anyone says this could never happen to them, they're mistaken," Counceller said. "You have to keep your guard up at all times."

Ind. police chief accidentally shoots self at gun shop

And if you don't have a round in the chamber, you can't have a negligent discharge.

 

[Protected One]

Locally, someone who was legally carrying managed to accidentally shoot himself in the shopping mall bathroom. I bet that he wishes that he didn't have a round in the chamber.

....or that he'd employed better gun handling skills!

 

[Protected One]

Question from a new shooter.

I'm not ready to CC yet because I don't feel like I have the training and experience yet.

But.

I do want to start moving toward a more 'ready' condition at home.

My pistol is usually locked in a case inside the safe, with all ammo locked in a separate case.

I want to move from this condition (locked up) to 'more ready'.

My thinking is to load a magazine with a proven SD round, insert the mag, then place it in a sturdy retention holster e.g Safariland 7377 for the night, near the bedside.

Thoughts?

Should I have a round chambered in this case or no?

Pistol is a FS9mm sku 209301.

For about $100 you can get a small gun vault that will keep your handgun (loaded and chambered) at the ready for you, and safe when un-needed. Fits perfect on a nightstand.

IF you are unfortunate enough to have a break in, you will have enough things running through your mind that you don't need to unnecessarily add another (chambering a round) to the list!

 

[fdw]

Question from a new shooter.

I'm not ready to CC yet because I don't feel like I have the training and experience yet.

But.

I do want to start moving toward a more 'ready' condition at home.

My pistol is usually locked in a case inside the safe, with all ammo locked in a separate case.

I want to move from this condition (locked up) to 'more ready'.

My thinking is to load a magazine with a proven SD round, insert the mag, then place it in a sturdy retention holster e.g Safariland 7377 for the night, near the bedside.

Thoughts?

Should I have a round chambered in this case or no?

Pistol is a FS9mm sku 209301.

For what's it's worth here's what I do. My FS 9 M&P is in the dresser 2 feet away one in pipe. My wife's 380 in her bedside drawer "locked and loaded" (sig p238). Shotgun beside dresser. Only weapon in the house that I don't keep one in the pipe.

Others "locked and loaded". I never, ever put my finger on the trigger till I'm ready to fire... why? Because all guns are loaded... period!

 

[cmort666]

And if you don't have a round in the chamber, you can't have a negligent discharge.

Nor can you have a competent discharge.

If you want to eliminate the possibility of a negligent discharge, not only don't carry a firearm, don't OWN one.

If you're more afraid of a negligent discharge than of a violent attack, don't incur the risk by owning a gun.

 

[jlrhiner]

If you don't feel competent enough to carry your semi auto handgun with one in the chamber, buy a revolver. That's like driving a 'vette and taking two plug wires off. Pointless and dangerous.

How often do you get to quote yourself?

 

[TexasArmed]

There is a time when condition 3 is reasonable; when you have another firearm as a primary tool. At the base I was going to be stationed at in Afghanistan (never got there, but that's another story) we were required to carry the M9 in condition 3. However, we also had an M16/M4 in condition 1. I didn't like it, but it kept the uninitiated from setback issues by chambering a round many times. It also reduced the handling necessary.

Yes, terrible habit. So, practice getting your trigger finger on the reference point as you present the gun from the holster. The condition your gun is in makes no difference, this is a necessary part of gun handling.

I have seen all those same NDs with revolvers. The frequency is probably less due to revolvers being less prominent today. Nevertheless, I've seen every kind of stupidity carried out with every type of firearm. Due to the long, heavy DA pull of a revolver, I'm sure they are less, but they happen just the same.

Not to dispute your statement but tell me more about the ND you saw with a revolver. Was the finger inside the trigger guard, when they drew, or were they dry firing it when they thought they had emptied? I personally have never seen an ND with a revolver. You really got to try really hard to ND a
double action revolver. If I do meet someone that ever had
an ND with one, I would want to completely stay out of gun range from them, because they would really have to be spastic.

 

[Rastoff]

I think you make a very good point. If my new M&P9 had a manual safety, then I probably would want to carry it chambered.

The safety of the gun is almost identical with or without the thumb safety. In the M&P line, the thumb safety only blocks trigger movement. It doesn't block the sear like the safety on a 1911.

So, the only unsafe aspect of an M&P with or without a thumb safety comes from the user.

 

[Rastoff]

Not to dispute your statement but tell me more about the ND you saw with a revolver.

I have seen every kind of stupidity you can imagine. By all rights I should be terrified to go to the gun range.

I've seen not just one ND with a revolver, I've seen several. I've seen more than one pull the trigger when they thought they'd shot all the rounds. One guy had an improperly seated primer on number 5. What he thought was going to be the seventh trigger pull, resulted in a hole in the table at the range. Why did he pull the trigger again after shooting what he thought was 6 shots? Why was he pulling the trigger when he wasn't pointed at the target?

I watched in horror as a guy pointed the gun down range, have a misfire, then look down the barrel and pull the trigger TWICE!

I saw a guy say, "Yeah, yeah, I've been around firearms all my life. I know what I'm doing." Only to put a round in the ground as he attempted to reholster the gun in a cross draw rig. Fortunately no one was standing to his left. That was with a SA gun. Why was he putting it in his holster with the hammer cocked?

I saw a guy put a round through the table at the gun range while trying to present from the holster.

I didn't actually see the shot, but saw the result of a guy with his finger in the trigger guard while reholstering. Fortunately, the result was a hole in the concrete not the shooter. This guy actually admitted he had his finger in the trigger guard.

How many more do you want? I've seen many of the same negligent discharges with the Beretta 92FS(M9) and SIG Sauer P220. Again, every kind of negligent discharge I can think of, I've seen with just about every type of gun. The thing is, ALL guns are dangerous if not properly handled.

Thinking that a 12-16lb DA trigger pull is more safe will only lead to another negligent discharge because someone will think it's OK to have his finger on the trigger when they shouldn't. I'm not saying you think that way TexasArmed, but there are those that do.

 

[Protected One]

The safety of the gun is almost identical with or without the thumb safety. In the M&P line, the thumb safety only blocks trigger movement. It doesn't block the sear like the safety on a 1911.

So, the only unsafe aspect of an M&P with or without a thumb safety comes from the user.

So true. I just picked up an M&P Shield 9 today. Won't be using the manual safety, but I'm still glad it's there.

 

[Capt.Jim]

Locally, someone who was legally carrying managed to accidentally shoot himself in the shopping mall bathroom. I bet that he wishes that he didn't have a round in the chamber.

In addition to other response of bathroom self-shooting incident.
I would like to add to add the experienced LEO and his girlfriend incident. During the dance I think there was a AD and the girlfriend end up DEAD!
I guess in some certain incidents C1 also may get your loved ones killed too...
So there are always examples of C1 saved the day.
But also equally enough examples that the C1 ruined the day too.
So every carry option has it risks.
Take your pick.
But don't EVER tell others don't carry because you don't approve their prefer method of carry!

 

[harmavoidance0]

I've been watching theyankeemarshall for a while. tactical butterscotch always makes me smile
STOP! I HAVE ALL THE MEANS ON MY PERSON TO ASSEMBLE AND USE A FIREARM!

Yeah, that'll save us.

[EDIT] I carry one in the pipe, safety on.
[Double edit] Does condition one count for striker fired handguns? Seems analagous.

 

[Capt.Jim]

Nor can you have a competent discharge.

If you want to eliminate the possibility of a negligent discharge, not only don't carry a firearm, don't OWN one.

If you're more afraid of a negligent discharge than of a violent attack, don't incur the risk by owning a gun.

What an arrogant statement!
That's the most silly thing I've ever heard and guess who liked it ... Surprise, surprise!

Most people I came across in my life who had a bad accident like an ND or AD were MOSTLY those arrogant people who generally think they are the best at what they do and claim to be fearless of anything bad happening to them!
Like that cop who shot himself in front of the classroom full of students while he is bragging that he is the ONLY one who knows how to handle a gun safely in that room!
Good going!

 

[cmort666]

What an arrogant statement!

And completely true.

If you're more afraid of a negligent discharge than of a violent attack, your fear is not of an assailant; it's of your means of defense from an attack by that assailant... or your own abilities or lack thereof.

You don't see me demanding legislation REQUIRING people to have a round in the chamber when the firearm is being maintained for self-defense.

But at the same time, you don't (and won't) see me pandering to the folly of giving somebody who's just put you in immediate and credible fear of death or great bodily harm an edge in an encounter in which there's "no second place winner".

If you want to give a violent assailant a leg up in his attack on you, you have the right to do so. That in no way negates my right to characterize that as foolish.