CCW: Keep one in the pipe?

Status
Not open for further replies.
drolen said:
I agree it will never end as long as we have people who will not give any credibility to any other answer than their own.

Earlier someone, maybe you, mentioned that a CCW was to protect themselves from an armed assailant. Presumably one who is going to give little to no notice of an attack.

In my neck of the woods those things do happen but they are so rare that you can expect it will not happen to you, but like the lottery it's going to happen to someone and that's why many of us choose to carry. In my area it's far more likely that you'll have a minute or more to size up any potential situation and make a decision whether to draw or handle in a different manner. In these situations C3 would work fine.

I'm sure many will still disagree but consider this if you can have an open mind about the subject without resorting to immediately using disparaging remarks that have nothing to do with the actual pros and cons of one or another method of carry or condition in which to carry.

I've never practiced drawing and firing with an actual timer to measure seconds but I'm guessing it takes a second or two for the average trained shooter to draw and get two in the torso.

In two seconds a close up assailant can hit you multiple times or put at C1 carrier on the ground. In that case, and assuming you're still capable, a C3 carrier is in big trouble due to the added action of chambering a round. No doubt about it, the C1 carrier has the better chance at survival in this situation.

But what if the attacker does more than grab you or put you on the ground? Let's say he injures you to the point where you cannot draw by any means. In that case there is no difference in C1/C3. So how do we prepare for such an encounter.

How about not place the weapon in the holster at all? Maybe we should all carry low ready or high ready as if clearing a room. Maybe have a wingman or a whole stack team just in case their is more than one BG.

My point is that many times I see the C3 status criticized basically because it is not responsive enough. How responsive should the carry position be? As responsive as C1 which still has limitations?

In addition, I see many who criticize a lack of training. While I agree that an armed person should be trained, what is the level and who decides? We probably all agree that once every 5 years at the CCW range and class is probably not optimal but what is enough? A few refreshers and a couple trips to the range a year? A month? 5000rds a year plus advanced training classes? Military or law enforcement training? Education and awareness? A subjective proclamation by the user of feeling comfortable?

The real answer is the local CCW issuer decides the minimal required for the permit and the user decides from there. Sometimes it's a little scary when you think about it. At one extreme we have people who are irresponsible because they lack training and at the other end we have people who are irresponsible because they're a little too eager.

I find it interesting that some folks claim to have the one and only answer to a question that really comes down to personal decision and personal preference on how to carry.

I see statements that say not to try and use military or law enforcement to establish credibility if you're defend C3. That's ridiculous. Understanding that a large number of law enforcement and military don't have much experience with handguns, and especially CWW, and acknowledging that just wearing the uniform probably decreases their risk of random violence to nearly zero, there is still no reason to try and discredit all military or law enforcement. Maybe the poster didn't mean it that way, but it seemed to me he did. If that's the case then all experience and claimed credentials should get the same treatment. They're all worthless. Then where are we? Just discussing the points. If that is the case then we can have no statements that simply declare what is right such as "There are no valid reasons to carry C3." That statement must be backed by logic, not made as a declaration.

I argue that each person who carries must decide for themselves and consider the totality of the circumstances such as training, clothing, and location.

@forrestinmathews, I use "you" a lot in this post but I'm not addressing you specifically, I'm addressing the subject and the points made. No offence meant to you or anyone personally.
Click to expand...

That is as rational and well presented as any comment I've read on the subject. Thank you! :cool:
 
Arik said:
I was in a situation once when I was 15 that proved that to carry without one in the chamber is just dumb. My mom and I got attacked going to her car in a parking lot. The man came out of nowhere and was gone just as fast. Luckily all he wanted was her purse. Had he wanted anything else there would have been barely any time to draw let alone chamber. Everything happened in 1.3 seconds. It was that fast. We only saw him when he grabbed the purse. And dont give me that situational awareness unless you look under and around every car in a parking lot as you head to your car. Its true that there might not have even been time to draw but I sure wouldn't want to add ANOTHER step to it

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Honestly? I doubt your mom could have drawn and fired on target in 1.3 seconds anyway, so the carry condition would not have mattered. :cool:
 
The worst thing ever to happen was the Glock Trigger and then its imitators
Polymer semis have the advantage in weight reduction and capacity over revolvers so that is a positive
But I wish they had triggers like a DA revolver
I really liked the trigger on my 4053
 
Protected One said:
Honestly? I doubt your mom could have drawn and fired on target in 1.3 seconds anyway, so the carry condition would not have mattered. :cool:
Click to expand...

First, obviously I'm exaggerating on the time. That's just how it felt. For all I know it was less or more.

Second. What if he didn't run away? That's like saying why even carry it probably wouldn't have mattered anyway
 
rcp1936 said:
The worst thing ever to happen was the Glock Trigger and then its imitators
Polymer semis have the advantage in weight reduction and capacity over revolvers so that is a positive
But I wish they had triggers like a DA revolver
I really liked the trigger on my 4053
Click to expand...

In addition it made going from a revolver to a semi and back so much easier a far as the trigger action
 
I started carrying in 1991 and as an immortal 21 year old I always carried with one in the chamber, with a Glock 19. Now all these years later, I am less immortal and less infallible. My best friend, a former Marine, has had two NDs, both of which I was witness to, and it has shown me how imperfect we all are.

I have never had an ND, and I do not plan to. I carry C3. I'm not soliciting opinions on my style of carry, just sharing my rationale. The overwhelming majority of the time, I am not involved in a gun fight (never so far). Due to this, the added safety of condition 3, no chance of a public ND, outweighs the infinitesimally small chance that I will be involved in a gun fight, and further that said gun fight will unfold in such a way that I will have no time to execute an Israeli-style draw.

That being said, there are times, such as having to stop for gas late at night in an iffy part of town, that I would discretely chamber a round prior to exiting my car. In such a case, the risk of a confrontation has outweighed the risk of an ND.

This is my reasoning, it works very well for me. I have confidence in my firearm, I chose it carefully. I have confidence in my holster as well. Condition 3 is my compromise between safety and security.
 
Last edited:
Arik said:
First, obviously I'm exaggerating on the time. That's just how it felt. For all I know it was less or more.

Second. What if he didn't run away? That's like saying why even carry it probably wouldn't have mattered anyway
Click to expand...

"EVERYTHING HAPPENED IN 1.3 SECONDS. IT HAPPENED THAT FAST".

Please understand, statments that "definite" don't lead one to presume you were exagerating.

Second. Had he not run away, we would be talking about a totally different situation. My response was about what DID happen ...not what MIGHT have happened. :cool:
 
Ok dude whatever. You carry in condition 12 if you want. Ask the dirt bag to wait wile you assemble your firearm.

Next time I'll make sure to include detailed explanation if how and why it's an exaggeration along with a dictionary definition
 
Protected One said:
Honestly? I doubt your mom could have drawn and fired on target in 1.3 seconds anyway, so the carry condition would not have mattered. :cool:
Click to expand...

I've been timed and there's no doubt in my mind I can draw and get two rounds on target in 1.3 seconds.
 
Right, fellas learn from this instance. No need to carry a gun with a round chambered. In fact there is probably no need for one at all
 
Being a "revolver guy" now, I don't really have much of a choice. That's the way I like it; ready to call into action if need be. That being said, I do appreciate the 12 pound trigger pull on my J frame. Not to say I wouldn't carry with one in the pipe in a semi-auto, and I know a lot of people hate the heavy trigger pull of DAO revolvers, but I see every pound of those 12 as an advantage.

I don't know if I'm practicing bad habits or anything, but I'm becoming quite adept at subconsciously stopping the trigger pull right when the cylinder locks into place after rotating; the subsequent pull required to fire the revolver is almost nothing. Reminds me somewhat of cocking the hammer back on a revolver with a hammer. It makes it really easy for an accurate and well placed shot. I also am practicing with more rapid fire techniques, but my first focus was mastering the "stages" of the trigger and knowing it well enough to be friendly with every part of the pull.


But to answer the question, yes, always one in the pipe or all cylinders loaded. I'm not paranoid or anything, but sometimes I run random scenarios in my head to see how I would deal with it, in terms of options and reaction times required and stuff. Like, if someone was attacking me in an elevator or really close quarters, there's no way I would be able to pull, rack a slide, and present the weapon in a confined, close space like that before I was incapacitated. Same with surprise attack type deals. Or if someone is attacking me in my car. I figure the safest bet is me simply ready to go. Again, not paranoid, just pondering what is most effective for me so I can carry accordingly.
 
Last edited:
Smoke said:
Right here


Am I misreading this?
Click to expand...

Yes, you are, because no place in there do I say it couldn't be done. What I said was - I doubt HIS MOTHER could do it. See the difference?

Here is why I say it. Anyone who can unholster and accurately place rounds on target that rapidly has obviously practiced quite a bit, as I'm sure you'd agree. They have probably had substantial training as well. All this because they are intending to carry on a regular basis. The fact that she was not carrying causes me to think that she was "most likely" not that well trained...and therefore unlikely to pull off a 1.3 second draw. Of course, I could be wrong. :cool:
 
Last edited:
Protected One said:
Yes, you are, because no place in there do I say it couldn't be done. What I said was - I doubt HIS MOTHER could do it. See the difference?

Here is why I say it. Anyone who can unholster and accurately place rounds on target that rapidly has obviously practiced quite a bit, as I'm sure you'd agree. They have probably had substantial training as well. All this because they are intending to carry on a regular basis. The fact that she was not carrying causes me to think that she was "most likely" not that well trained...and therefore unlikely to pull off a 1.3 second draw. Of course, I could be wrong. :cool:
Click to expand...

Missunderstanding, my apologies
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

chief38
Fabrique National Auto 5 12 gauge shotgun from 1927 - 1929
Replies
9
Views
983
Dan W. Cady
D
chief38
EDC, CCW, HD, SD - Keep it simple!
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
Sgt. Buzzard
S
Krogen
Glock G30 Malfunctions (am I limp-wristing??)
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
Warren Sear
Warren Sear
chief38
Loctite and guns - do they mix? This subject keeps coming up - hence another thread for those who wonder.
2 3
Replies
53
Views
3K
Tinkertech
T
ImDrRich
BG 2.0 returned from S&W Service
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
10Mad
10Mad

Latest posts

Back
Top