First Time Seating Bullets, Not Good!

[venomballistics]

I checked that. They are all .38. The brass is mostly factory stuff I have fired over the years, but I recall buying a few boxes of factory reloaded ammo over the years so they might have a few reloaded ones in there.

there could be something in there.
I have an old ideal mold that casts a 170 grain Keith type.
Using it in the wife's Henry big boy 357 rifle, I cannot load it, using the crimp groove in 357 brass. The OAL is just too long for it to feed.
If using a 38 case and the 357's OAL, it's perfect.
If that bullet was used in the reload, it would make some sense to trim them for production loading.

if you set em all out mouth up on a table, these will stand out pretty well so that you can cull them.

 

[Rule3]

Your bullets have a cannelure (crimp groove) yes??

Seat them so the case mouth is just about even with the top of the groove. Just a tad nelo it (no need to measure) then use the FCD and it should trun the case mouth (crimp into the groove) Your bullet groov may vary from this.

It should look like this (45 Colt) SWC Bullet from a long lost member.

 

[kbm6893]

Your bullets have a cannelure (crimp groove) yes??

Seat them so the case mouth is just about even with the top of the groove. Just a tad nelo it (no need to measure) then use the FCD and it should trun the case mouth (crimp into the groove) Your bullet groov may vary from this.

It should look like this (45 Colt) SWC Bullet from a long lost member.

Not like yours. 8-9 lines in the bullet is all.

 

[kbm6893]

Correct on the seating die. If you screw the die in anymore it will begin to crimp.

Incorrect on the FCD. Raise the ram , screw in the die only (no case) until it hits the shell holder. Lock the die ring.

Now put a seated round in the holder and screw down the adjustment knob (on top) untill it stops (hits the bullet) now back off the ram a little and screw the top knob 1/2 turn for a light crimp, 3/4 to 1 turn for a firmer crimp. If you have a cannelure on the bullet you will see the case crimp into the groove.

Just ran another one. Getting easier. One thing I do notice is when I raise the brass with the bullet in it I usually encounter resistance the first time and have to kind of muscle it in there. After that, they seat smooth. Still don't like the overall "look" of the completed round. maybe it's the round nose lead I am not used to seeing. I set the crimp to half turn and the brass is crimped, but I'm thinking it could use a hair more. Just doesn't look seemless like a factory round.

All else aside, if the OAl comes into range, IF these rounds were live, do they look good enough to fire? Not looking to drop powder for at least a month, but I don't want to keep wasting brass and bullets on dummies.

By the way, the guns that will be used are a Ruger Service Six and a S&W 65. Both 4" and both .357 Magnum.

Just ran another one. I see why I was getting resistance. Expanded just a hair too much. One thing I did learn is that when I used the crimp die, the bullet was seated just a bit more as it crimped. So I'll leave it a hair long before I go to crimp.

 

[Nevada Ed]

As long as your 38 special brass is no longer than 1.155"
you are good to go...........
if you are shooting the ammo in a 38 cylinder.

There is something very wrong with the picture of the three "38" loads.

 

[Rule3]

OK on your bullets those are all lube grooves so I would seat up to the middle of the top groove. Were did you get those? Look like bullets cast in a LEE mold?

First off, you do not want the seating die to crimp for 2 reasons, one, when you do it will seat the bullet.05" more than what you set it at and you have to compensate for that. 2) you are going to use the crimp die so no sense in crimping twice.



Set the seating die just as I explained. With no crimp.

The FCD will crimp it. If you mean you have the FCD knob turned 1/2 you can turn it a full turn, you can not over crimp with the LFCD so turn it some more and you will see the difference .

When you raise the seated brass into the FCD, yes you will feel resistance sometimes a lot as it is post sizing the whole round you will feel this with lead bullets not much at all with FMJ. It is supposed to do that. Then you will feel it crimp.

Here are some 357 Mag. We were experimenting with trimmed to length brass (the nickel ones) and non trimmed brass to see how much difference it would make in where the crimp fell. The trimmed are more exact but the untrimmed are only a few thousandths difference so to me it make no difference for general shooting. Some loaders trim straight wall brass others do not. I don't. I hate trimming rifle brass!

 

[kbm6893]

As long as your 38 special brass is no longer than 1.155"
you are good to go...........
if you are shooting the ammo in a 38 cylinder.

There is something very wrong with the picture of the three "38" loads.

Yeah, I screwed those ones up big time. Does the second picture with the six rounds look better?

 

[kbm6893]

OK on your bullets those are all lube grooves so I would seat up to the middle of the top groove. Were did you get those? Look like bullets cast in a LEE mold?

First off, you do not want the seating die to crimp for 2 reasons, one, when you do it will seat the bullet.05" more than what you set it at and you have to compensate for that. 2) you are going to use the crimp die so no sense in crimping twice.



Set the seating die just as I explained. With no crimp.

The FCD will crimp it. If you mean you have the FCD knob turned 1/2 you can turn it a full turn, you can not over crimp with the LFCD so turn it some more and you will see the difference .

When you raise the seated brass into the FCD, yes you will feel resistance sometimes a lot as it is post sizing the whole round you will feel this with lead bullets not much at all with FMJ. It is supposed to do that. Then you will feel it crimp.

Here are some 357 Mag. We were experimenting with trimmed to length brass (the nickel ones) and non trimmed brass to see how much difference it would make in where the crimp fell. The trimmed are more exact but the untrimmed are only a few thousandths difference so to me it make no difference for general shooting. Some loaders trim straight wall brass others do not. I don't. I hate trimming rifle brass!

The resistance was when I was initially seating the bullet. I figured it out. Expanded just a bit too much. Lessened it and it slides in easy now.

Did what you said on the no crimping while seating. Measured the completed round and it was 1.438". Max OAL is 1.440 so I was OK. But when I crimped it with the FCD, it seated it a bit more and now the round is 1.432.


I got the bullets at a reloading shop that sells a lot of Lee, so it was probably done there. Don't really like them and will not be shooting lead any more. But they were all they had and I needed some bullets. As for the spot in the groove, I'm kind of ignoring those and just using my calipers to get to the right length.

 

[Rule3]

The resistance was when I was initially seating the bullet. I figured it out. Expanded just a bit too much. Lessened it and it slides in easy now.

Did what you said on the no crimping while seating. Measured the completed round and it was 1.438". Max OAL is 1.440 so I was OK. But when I crimped it with the FCD, it seated it a bit more and now the round is 1.432.


I got the bullets at a reloading shop that sells a lot of Lee, so it was probably done there. Don't really like them and will not be shooting lead any more. But they were all they had and I needed some bullets. As for the spot in the groove, I'm kind of ignoring those and just using my calipers to get to the right length.

Your flare or expanded mouth should be just enough that th bullet barely starts to go in. Any more is too much.

As long fits the cylinder and if these are 38 spl shot in a 357 the COL will not matter.

The FCD will not change the COAL. After you seat the bullet, there should still be the flare, measure the COAL What is it? Now use the FCD it should not change??

If the seating die is set to crimp it will push the bullet in a little and change you OAL.

 

[kbm6893]

Your flare or expanded mouth should be just enough that th bullet barely starts to go in. Any more is too much.

As long fits the cylinder and if these are 38 spl shot in a 357 the COL will not matter.

The FCD will not change the COAL. After you seat the bullet, there should still be the flare, measure the COAL What is it? Now use the FCD it should not change??

If the seating die is set to crimp it will push the bullet in a little and change you OAL.

I just ran another one. The FCD sure does change my OAL. I seated one at the OAL was 1.436, just under the Max OAL of 1.440. I put the crimp die in and figured I'd give it a better crimp, so I turn the top knob since I figured it wasn't gonna over crimp, and the bullet is now WAY low, and the length is 1.366.

I learned a lot so I don't mind wasting the bullets and brass.

 

[forestswin]

.............................................
No, I did not trim my brass. I did chamfer them using the included tool. Nearly everything I have read says trimming pistol brass, especially revolver brass, is rarely necessary. They are a mix of .38 Special brands. I guess maybe I have to sort the brass and keep the sizes together. Didn't know there would be a difference in size of brass.

kbm
Rule is a great coach - seems like progress is being made.

But, I'm one who trims my cases for revolver rounds - don't need to get into that discussion, but if you have decided not to trim, you still should measure case lengths after resizing, especially with a group of mixed brass. If they fall within the minimum to maximum lengths in your manual - you're good to go.

Shooting 38 special cases in a 357 also gives you some additional flexibility.

good luck, have fun and be safe

 

[kbm6893]

kbm
Rule is a great coach - seems like progress is being made.

But, I'm one who trims my cases for revolver rounds - don't need to get into that discussion, but if you have decided not to trim, you still should the measure case lengths after resizing, especially a group of mixed brass. If they fall within the minimum to maximum lengths in your manual - you're good to go.

Shooting 38 special cases in a 357 also gives you some additional flexibility.

good luck, have fun and be safe

Will do. How do the completed rounds look in the pic with 6 bullets? Is it my imagination or does the crimp not look crimped enough? And what do you make of the fcd further seating my bullet?

 

[66 shooter]

Good advice from Rule3, stay with it...practice will make perfect.

 

[ken158]

I see that you are LE - all the advice here is good but will only confuse you with facts you may not understand. Ask around your department to see who reloads and invite them over to see your new equipment. You know the rest.

 

[Kalison]

That's weird. The first photo looks like two 357s and a 38 special

Sent from my Lumia 1520

 

[Rule3]

Your picture in post #16 appears to have NO crimp at akk? Maybe a better close up picture?

Something is not right in the factory crimp die. It does not further seat a bullet.

Re do the set up on it.

Back out the top knob untill you see threads. now loosen the entire die and unscrew it a bit (up)

NOW, raise the ram all the way up with no case in it. Now screw the whole die down until it touchs the shell holder. Tighten the lock ring without moving the die.

Now put a seated UNCRIMPED round in the shell holder

Raise the ram up (you should not feel anything) now screw the top adjustment down until it touches the bullet.

Back the ram down and turn the adjustment nut 3/4 turn.

Raise the ram, the case should crimp. If you want more crimp turn the adjustment another 1/4 turn (total of 1 whole turn).

I need another nap!

Geese I should have thought of this earlier!!

Adjusting Lee Factory Crimp Die - YouTube

 

[kbm6893]

I see that you are LE - all the advice here is good but will only confuse you with facts you may not understand. Ask around your department to see who reloads and invite them over to see your new equipment. You know the rest.

Retired. And nobody I did work with reloaded. Why bother when you get factory ammo for free?

 

[kbm6893]

Your picture in post #16 appears to have NO crimp at akk? Maybe a better close up picture?

Something is not right in the factory crimp die. It does not further seat a bullet.

Re do the set up on it.

Back out the top knob untill you see threads. now loosen the entire die and unscrew it a bit (up)

NOW, raise the ram all the way up with no case in it. Now screw the whole die down until it touchs the shell holder. Tighten the lock ring without moving the die.

Now put a seated UNCRIMPED round in the shell holder

Raise the ram up (you should not feel anything) now screw the top adjustment down until it touches the bullet.

Back the ram down and turn the adjustment nut 3/4 turn.

Raise the ram, the case should crimp. If you want more crimp turn the adjustment another 1/4 turn (total of 1 whole turn).

I need another nap!

Geese I should have thought of this earlier!!

Adjusting Lee Factory Crimp Die - YouTube

I just watched that on the lee page. Will run another few tomorrow. So the six I did in the pic look Uncrimped to you too?

Bright side is I learned more this afternoon then I did in a month. I love this forum! I'll mark those 6 rounds and use them for dummy rounds in practice

 

[forestswin]

Will do. How do the completed rounds look in the pic with 6 bullets? Is it my imagination or does the crimp not look crimped enough? And what do you make of the fcd further seating my bullet?

Rule knows much more than I do about the Lee FCD. I use the Redding Profile crimp die on my 38 special and 357's. Its similar, but not exactly the same. I use the Lee FCD on my 9mm - but they're taper crimped.

Can you get a clearer picture of the bullet? like the picture of your six completed rounds That picture turned out clear. I know sometimes its tough getting close up pictures.

If you just sit it on top of a case, not seated, at that same distance and same lighting - it should show up clear enough.

or give the name of the bullet caster - sometimes their websites have clear pictures of their bullets.

That'll help see where the crimp is hitting on the bullet.

 

[Rule3]

I just watched that on the lee page. Will run another few tomorrow. So the six I did in the pic look Uncrimped to you too?

Bright side is I learned more this afternoon then I did in a month. I love this forum! I'll mark those 6 rounds and use them for dummy rounds in practice

Actually the 1st picture on your first post the middle round looks crimped, maybe to long but crimped??

Were are you getting the COL from, is it the same shape and weight bullet.????

Those are some pointy RN so I am not used to seeing them. The RN that I have are not as long looking and only have 1 crimp groove.