coltle6920
Member
Guilty as charged.
Where do I sign up?
Took this pic about two months ago so it's a little light.There's about 10,500 here.
Sad experience today
- Thread starter spad124
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coltle6920
Member
coltle6920
Member
venomballistics
Member
Your correct. We should, and do introduce newcomers.
My point early on was that while the 22lr is a spectacular round for the task of training, it's not the only game in town.
It never had a monopoly.
357 in a lever action is bliss.
30 carbine ain't none too bad either.
327 federal got drilled into a few rifles. Too bad no one warmed up to that one.
In the hands of a well seasoned hand loader, a great many cartridges can be tamed to meet the task with brilliance.
I've introduced and taught many from as far back as my late teens.
Oddly, in the past 15 years, I didn't employ a 22 to the task.
This is the sad part for me.
There's a metric poop ton of options, and everyone seems to just lay down and take it rather than look to the right or left of the bare 22lr shelf, to something else that will work, and is there.
ChattanoogaPhil
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I'm sure folks miss the Norman Rockwell moments of father and son on a beautiful Saturday fall morning walking with rifle in hand to the local hardware store for a 25 cent box of ammo. But for better or worse, life moves on. Hand the kid an iPhone. Two minutes later the kid will have available .22 ammo on screen ready for purchase. Buy enough to go shooting for many Saturdays to come. Log onto S&W Forum to be told what a horrible person you are for hoarding ammo. Turn off computer and go enjoy the morning with granddaughter at the range. Works for me.
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Jim1392
US Veteran
So if I'm reading this right you have only been able to replace 500 rounds since 2011??
If you have been following the In Stock Ammo thread you could have replaced the whole 10,000 very easily. There has been more postings just this last month with VERY reasonable pricing on that thread. I'm at the point now where I have more then enough. And only buy when it is a certain kind of ammo I like. Not like before when I would buy whatever brand I could get just to shoot.Just last week I watched Federal Auto match sit on the In Stock Ammo thread for 3 straight days for $17.99 plus shipping right to your door. Thats almost your first 1,000 rounds back at a little over 7 Cents a round. And you wouldn't have even had to drive around wasting gas and not find any. I guess that why I get so confused
when I see people complaining that they have no ammo.
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22 LR ammo situation
I cannot talk about the availability of 22 ammo in any areas other than eastern Pennsylvania and Northern Delaware. I enjoy shooting my 22's both hand guns and rifles. I also have 7 grand kids and 3 are old enough to shoot, with plenty of adult supervision. I am not a hoarder, I don't get up early in the AM to go to stores. If I see 22 ammo at what I think is a fair price I buy some. I was in a small gun shop in Wilmington, Delaware recently and they wanted $75.00 for a brick of Remington ammo. I would not buy it. Last week a LGS was selling cases of Federal ammo for $199.00 for 3225 rounds. I bought a case. I think that 22 ammo is getting a little easier to buy and I hope that the trend continues. I find that I can sometimes get some at Walmart, Dicks, and some other smaller stores, but it is available, though not every time I go into the store. It is important to start our children shooting but the fathers are going to have to realize that they have to plan ahead!
I cannot talk about the availability of 22 ammo in any areas other than eastern Pennsylvania and Northern Delaware. I enjoy shooting my 22's both hand guns and rifles. I also have 7 grand kids and 3 are old enough to shoot, with plenty of adult supervision. I am not a hoarder, I don't get up early in the AM to go to stores. If I see 22 ammo at what I think is a fair price I buy some. I was in a small gun shop in Wilmington, Delaware recently and they wanted $75.00 for a brick of Remington ammo. I would not buy it. Last week a LGS was selling cases of Federal ammo for $199.00 for 3225 rounds. I bought a case. I think that 22 ammo is getting a little easier to buy and I hope that the trend continues. I find that I can sometimes get some at Walmart, Dicks, and some other smaller stores, but it is available, though not every time I go into the store. It is important to start our children shooting but the fathers are going to have to realize that they have to plan ahead!
Venomballistics said:
Really? That's a big part of the problem.Widespread hoarding always creates a shortage of product in question, whether it be sugar, coffee, gas or ammo.
Hate to say it, but the retail price of 22 ammo is way too low. The issue in the OP is that dad could not find any 22 ammo in the stores, regardless of price. If all the retail stores ,or manufacturers, increased the price to $50/75 brick or $5 /10 box, then we would see 22 ammo on the shelves all the time. These prices are what I'm seeing at the gun shows and the only stores that have 22 on stock. They need to price out the gouger middle men.
I'd rather see the ammo makers or store owners get the profit than the scalpers. They are the ones that make it and bring it out to the market. Scalping and hoarding are self serving, nonproductive acts that disrupt the norm.
Higher retail prices will curtail hoarding by many and leave stock on the shelves for those who can't be there right whenever the ammo delivery arrives. It's better to be able to walk into any place that sells ammo and buy a box or two of 22 at any time, even if it costs more, than to not find any.
John
Really? That's a big part of the problem.Widespread hoarding always creates a shortage of product in question, whether it be sugar, coffee, gas or ammo.
Hate to say it, but the retail price of 22 ammo is way too low. The issue in the OP is that dad could not find any 22 ammo in the stores, regardless of price. If all the retail stores ,or manufacturers, increased the price to $50/75 brick or $5 /10 box, then we would see 22 ammo on the shelves all the time. These prices are what I'm seeing at the gun shows and the only stores that have 22 on stock. They need to price out the gouger middle men.
I'd rather see the ammo makers or store owners get the profit than the scalpers. They are the ones that make it and bring it out to the market. Scalping and hoarding are self serving, nonproductive acts that disrupt the norm.
Higher retail prices will curtail hoarding by many and leave stock on the shelves for those who can't be there right whenever the ammo delivery arrives. It's better to be able to walk into any place that sells ammo and buy a box or two of 22 at any time, even if it costs more, than to not find any.
John
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Now, gougers I don't like so much. That would be those who keep buying so they can re-sell it for double the retail value at gun shows to those who failed to hoard.[/QUOTE]
Has never really been clear to me how capitalism is demonized as "gouging". Someone buys it, marks it up for a profit........ONLY if someone/the market demand supports the increased price by buying it. There is NO gouging without buying.
Has never really been clear to me how capitalism is demonized as "gouging". Someone buys it, marks it up for a profit........ONLY if someone/the market demand supports the increased price by buying it. There is NO gouging without buying.
Does this mean you don't have a bugout bag?You can call me a hoarder if you want to. It doesn't bother me.
I have been hoarding ammo, guns, and components since 1992.
That was the year Clinton was elected, if you remember.
For some reason, I guess a little birdie must have told me, I started
buying up .22lr in late 2007 and early 2008. It was still relatively cheap,
and there was plenty of it. I believe I paid from $12.50 to $13.50 per
bulk pack, mostly Federal and Remington. I probably bought 10K rounds
during that six months or so, and I already probably had 10K to15K on hand.
It has made it possible for me to give away probably 5K of .22lr and several
hundred .22 magnum in the last 5-6 years. None of mine is for sale.
FYI, I also hoard food. My wife and I have filled up two freezers with various
garden vegetables this summer. I still have vegetables producing, but I
just don't have anywhere to put anymore. I will probably call the women's
rehab facility we support monetarily, and see if they want to send some
people out to pick the next bunch of peas that gets ready. We gave them
about 25 bushels of sweet corn a year or two back.
I also hoard gasoline and diesel fuel. I have a couple of generators to keep
the freezers charged in case of a prolonged outage. With 25 gallons of diesel fuel and $200
worth of fertilizer (which I also hoard) I can produce food for
the three or four families that depend on my garden for at least two years.
I forgot to mention that my brother, his daughter, and his son have all filled their freezers.
They are hoarders, too.
So, you can call me a hoarder, and it doesn't bother me at all. I imagine,
if the S were to actually HTF, a lot of those who sneer at us and think hoarding
is a bad word will be glad to accept some help.
As far as the "flippers" and "gougers" go, I am always amazed at the
anti-capitalist sentiment seen on a shooting forum, of all places. :roll eyes:
venomballistics
Member
Really,
it's the ill prepared who make the most trouble.
They are the ones feeding the scalpers.
They are the ones camping out at the lgs to clean off the shelves.
They are the ones crying about 231.
I was prepared.
I bought 6 pounds of powder in the past 2 years.
Most of that went towards assisting those who lacked the capacity to fix their own problems, and most of that was the powders the unwashed masses thumb their noses at.
22 lr .... I have 100 rounds,
the same 100 I got 4 years ago.
Your argument is invalid, flawed, and even insulting.
For the most part, I afforded myself the luxury of SITTING THIS ONE OUT.
that's right, I SAT IT OUT.
Next time around, after witnessing the horrid ,inflammatory, attitudes of the thankless ill prepared, I will not be offering any assistance, while I sit it out.
You may finger point, whine, accuse, blame, name call, and cuss, but I'm going to the range.
Sorry if my observations offended or insulted you VenomB. You post left me with the impression that you were one of those gents who were not comfortable with any less than a half a hundredweight of 22.
200 rounds of 22 is about what I used to have sitting around too for hunting and plinking. But what do you consider to be a five year stock?
My point was that hoarding only fuels the fire. A couple of hoarders make no never mind but an army of them creates situations like we are in now. By due process the natural economic law of supply and demand would make suppliers raise prices. This usually drives demand down, especially in situations where the product is not an absolute necessity of life as with 22 ammo, well, maybe it is to some. But this really didn't happen at the normal retail level. Right now I have two 500 packs and a half dozen loose boxes, which I consider more than enough for my uses, but I have scaled back on my target shooting because it took four months to find what I have. I refuse to pay 10 cents a round at the shows but when it hits that price at the retail stores I will have no choice, but at least I will have that option.
You can't buy it if you can't find it. The casual shooter is not one to consider alternate sources as a route to finding ammo. Nor are they likely to fully appreciate the current supply situation. Not everyone lives and breathes the shooting sports. It is unfair and insulting to berate them for a perceived lack of foresight.
I reload as well and yes, I am disgusted with the general scarcity of components. Generally I only keep a pound or two of a half dozen different types of powder on hand. that includes rifle , pistol, and black powders. Also cast my own bullets. Because of that, I've been shooting more center fire than 22. I am as frustrated as you and the next Joe, but as far as joining the hoarding bandwagon let me put it this way, just because every else is in a rush to go out and dump in the middle of the street doesn't I'll be doing it too.
John
200 rounds of 22 is about what I used to have sitting around too for hunting and plinking. But what do you consider to be a five year stock?
My point was that hoarding only fuels the fire. A couple of hoarders make no never mind but an army of them creates situations like we are in now. By due process the natural economic law of supply and demand would make suppliers raise prices. This usually drives demand down, especially in situations where the product is not an absolute necessity of life as with 22 ammo, well, maybe it is to some. But this really didn't happen at the normal retail level. Right now I have two 500 packs and a half dozen loose boxes, which I consider more than enough for my uses, but I have scaled back on my target shooting because it took four months to find what I have. I refuse to pay 10 cents a round at the shows but when it hits that price at the retail stores I will have no choice, but at least I will have that option.
You can't buy it if you can't find it. The casual shooter is not one to consider alternate sources as a route to finding ammo. Nor are they likely to fully appreciate the current supply situation. Not everyone lives and breathes the shooting sports. It is unfair and insulting to berate them for a perceived lack of foresight.
I reload as well and yes, I am disgusted with the general scarcity of components. Generally I only keep a pound or two of a half dozen different types of powder on hand. that includes rifle , pistol, and black powders. Also cast my own bullets. Because of that, I've been shooting more center fire than 22. I am as frustrated as you and the next Joe, but as far as joining the hoarding bandwagon let me put it this way, just because every else is in a rush to go out and dump in the middle of the street doesn't I'll be doing it too.
John
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Alpo
Member
Half a hundredweight? That's not a whole bunch.
I found this thread, In case your curious about weight of 22lr ammo - Survivalist Forum where a guy says he weighed some 22 - Winchester bulk pack 40 grain.
He bought 2000 rounds, and it weighted 15 pounds. So fifty pounds (half a hundredweight) is 6,667. Two bricks and a box more than a case.
Now, that is certainly more than the 200 rounds VenomB mentioned, but by no means is it a lot of 22.
I found this thread, In case your curious about weight of 22lr ammo - Survivalist Forum where a guy says he weighed some 22 - Winchester bulk pack 40 grain.
He bought 2000 rounds, and it weighted 15 pounds. So fifty pounds (half a hundredweight) is 6,667. Two bricks and a box more than a case.
Now, that is certainly more than the 200 rounds VenomB mentioned, but by no means is it a lot of 22.
The thing that I don't understand is why the manufacturers didn't add production capacity.
My understanding is that most of the major manufacturers have been running 24/7 for several years and still haven't been able to meet demand.
Assuming the machinery to make ammunition is available it would make more sense to me to add another line or two to the plant and increase production capacity (to a degree) without having to pay all that overtime.
If people are buying all that you make to not make more (if possible) is throwing away money.
My understanding is that most of the major manufacturers have been running 24/7 for several years and still haven't been able to meet demand.
Assuming the machinery to make ammunition is available it would make more sense to me to add another line or two to the plant and increase production capacity (to a degree) without having to pay all that overtime.
If people are buying all that you make to not make more (if possible) is throwing away money.
What's that old saying?
Lack of preparation on your part does not constitute and emergency on mine.
I said it before the first big ammo crunch we had taught me my lesson well.
The second big ammo crunch that we had taught me that a repeat is not only possible but inevitable.
Going forward if the ammo is there and I can afford it I buy it period.
Although I will say that we've limited ourselves to only feeding the carry guns so we don't buy a lot of .22 anyway but I'll bet we have 6K or so rounds of .22 stashed away.
Alpo
Member
If you are producing, let's say, 5 million rounds a day, and it is all selling, and people are clamoring for more, then you have an ongoing customer base.
But if you spend several million dollars to increase plant capability, and are now making 10 million rounds a day, how long will it take to pay for the new machinery, and the new floorspace to house the new machinery, and the new employees to run the new machinery. And if you catch up with demand, so you are no longer selling five million rounds a day, you then have to lay people off, and you have brand new machinery sitting there idle, that you still have to pay for.
That would be my guess was to why they don't "scale up to meet demand".
But if you spend several million dollars to increase plant capability, and are now making 10 million rounds a day, how long will it take to pay for the new machinery, and the new floorspace to house the new machinery, and the new employees to run the new machinery. And if you catch up with demand, so you are no longer selling five million rounds a day, you then have to lay people off, and you have brand new machinery sitting there idle, that you still have to pay for.
That would be my guess was to why they don't "scale up to meet demand".
First let me say that people smarter than me have already thought this out and obviously decided it wasn't profitable to do it.
That said they've not been able to meet demand for 6 years so during that time lets say they increase capacity by 25%. They have 100 machines they buy 25 more. ( I'm pretty sure the increased profits would pay off the machines in a year or two.
They have 300 employees (three shifts working 24 hours a day 7 days a week) but now they spread their 300 hundred over more machines and cut out some overtime ( more money saved to help pay off the new machines).
The machines themselves are durable you only have to buy them one time if demand falls you mothball that line until demand rises again.
That's not exact but pretty much every machine shop I ever worked in that's how they did it
venomballistics
Member
Given the fact that you cast, hand load and shoot, you have the means to break the crack addiction that is 22 lr.
we have hi tek and powder coating for cast bullets now. These new tools fix a major problem with one of the most frustrating economy loads ever devised. The round ball gallery load.
You can now cast, coat, and size a 312 ball to 309, and use a 30-30, 308, 30-40, 30-06 as well as many others, in the same capacity as a rimfire.
so, the answer to the how much 22 is enough question is ....
50 rounds.
You can transition from the 22 any time you like.
In fact, in many cases in this shortage, it's been cheaper than 22.
I've been doing this sort of loading since the 90s using cast 150 grain flat points. I simply like my 06 better than any 22 I have.
Components are on the uptick.
People are reporting actually finding powder now. 22 is still flaky, and may very well remain so.
Dump the bucket of frustration.
Some of you didn't pay attention four years ago and despite the signs, got caught short handed. I can imagine that would be embarrassing so a bit of name calling is to be expected.
Although the term "Prepper" is more hip, the definition of "hoarding" includes the phrase:
"A supply or accumulation that is hidden or carefully guarded for preservation, future use, etc."
And there ain't no shame in that.
Now, I'll give you a tip:
If you think that a one year or even a six year bump is "hoarding" you may want to hang onto your hat. I'm here to tell you that it may be 2024 before the conservatives will once again have the upper hand.
But not before The Hillarybeast has taken her turn at bat.
Although the term "Prepper" is more hip, the definition of "hoarding" includes the phrase:
"A supply or accumulation that is hidden or carefully guarded for preservation, future use, etc."
And there ain't no shame in that.
Now, I'll give you a tip:
If you think that a one year or even a six year bump is "hoarding" you may want to hang onto your hat. I'm here to tell you that it may be 2024 before the conservatives will once again have the upper hand.
But not before The Hillarybeast has taken her turn at bat.
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