Reloading during a self defense situation

[Biggfoot44]

* Profesional Conveyors of Firearms* ! I'm going to have to remember that and use it regularily.

As far as generalized comparison of skill at arms :

A PC of F whose skill level is easonably represented by that of shooting "Expert" on typical qualification course , would mid pack to lower mid pack at club level match of just about any flavor. Not trying to bash anyone on either (any) side , just observing. And for that matter , there are signifigent differences between Gun Club members who place mid pack in Club Matches , and someone who's only signifigent exposure to shooting was a state mandated minimum " CCW Lic class " .

 

[g8rb8]

I don't care who ya are, that's funny right there. I resemble that remark from time to time.

Pretty sure these stats are collected without talking to those involved, but it is a reasonable question.


OK, full marks for word usage. Go to the head of the class. It's rare that someone pulls out a word I don't know and that was one of them. I divined the intent through context, but looked it up anyway. Allow me to advance our education- There is a paucity of exotic word usage on this forum.

English aside, I don't agree with the premise of your thought. While police are indeed professional gun conveyors, by default that doesn't make them great users of said guns. I have nothing but respect for our men in blue, but I've met many who were only marginal with their firearm. In fact, many saw the range only with disdain. They saw the annual or biannual or quarterly shooting qualification as a chore rather than a fun aspect of their job. Many of those barely passed qualification.

So, no, I don't agree with the premise that because a professional has a low hit ratio, we will too. In fact, I think it's more the opposite. Yes, I believe the hit ratio won't be high, but because we are enthusiasts, as opposed to carrying because our job requires it, we tend to seek training more often and practice more.

Rastoff,
You make a very good point that practiced civilians would logically have a higher "hit rate" than professionals who carry merely because their job requires it and infrequently train. My main point was that there is data that both supports and negates the logic of carrying reloads and that it would be helpful to have additional data. Better statistics on the "hit rate" for civilians along with a breakdown of number of threats encountered per incident might help some people with their decision. In the end, in my opinion, the most logical argument can be made for carrying a reload but unfortunately we cannot quantitate the likelihood someone will need a reload.

John
Scoundrel and Ne'er-Do-Well in Training

 

[Don 73]

Just to add fuel to the fire, I carry two mags off duty for my 9c because that's what I train with and because YOU JUST NEVER KNOW.

 

[JohnSW]

An alternative to shoot-and-reload is shoot-and-run. Unlike police officers, civilians don't have to actually capture that bad guy, they just have to escape.

 

[Don 73]

An alternative to shoot-and-reload is shoot-and-run. Unlike police officers, civilians don't have to actually capture that bad guy, they just have to escape.

I wouldn't run too far, just to a point of safety so you can call it in to 911. Otherwise you might be cast in the wrong light by "witnesses" and perhaps your "victim" if they call the police.

 

[CoMF]

This seems to be one of those things that has no "correct" answer and boils down to personal preference. I say carry as many reloads as you feel your personal threat assessment demands.

Speaking only for myself, I feel that a single COMP-1 in a weak side belt holder is more than adequate for my needs. What other people choose to carry on their belt is their business.

 

[BAM-BAM]

This seems to be one of those things that has no "correct" answer and boils down to personal preference. I say carry as many reloads as you feel your personal threat assessment demands.

When does 10=86?

When they (posts) say the same thing!!!!!!LOL

 

[johngalt]

I've always questioned this:

If you shoot your gun empty and need to reload, presumably the threat hasn't ended. Most self defense situations take place inside 7 yards. How successful are you likely to be with your reload?

If the bad guy is close and not down yet, I doubt he is going to let you reload. I've never seen any statistics on successful reloads, just wondering if it actually happens.

 

[Don 73]

Reloading isn't just for continuing the initial incident, it's good practice to reload after the fight is "over" just in case it isn't.

 

[Maze 686]

I've always questioned this:

If you shoot your gun empty and need to reload, presumably the threat hasn't ended. Most self defense situations take place inside 7 yards. How successful are you likely to be with your reload?

If the bad guy is close and not down yet, I doubt he is going to let you reload. I've never seen any statistics on successful reloads, just wondering if it actually happens.

I don't know about CCW holders, but there are plenty documented in Law Enforcement.
Jim Cirillo's " Tales of The Stakeout Squad", is just one officer's experience. There are others out there in video and written to look up.

If you are in a shooting, I hope your feet are moving too. I'm not standing around to reload. Hopfully I can do it behind cover, even if the threat has gone down.

 

[Ranger514]

I've always questioned this:

If you shoot your gun empty and need to reload, presumably the threat hasn't ended. Most self defense situations take place inside 7 yards. How successful are you likely to be with your reload?

If the bad guy is close and not down yet, I doubt he is going to let you reload. I've never seen any statistics on successful reloads, just wondering if it actually happens.

Which is why most LE agencies train their folks to either move to cover for a reload, or simply step quickly off to the side while reloading, if they are not near a point of cover. In my agency, we practiced fast reloads in timed drills, both with and without a source of cover. Typically, we would fire dry, reload, and fire two or more rounds. The average time for the reload and resulting first shot following the reload was about three seconds.

Perfect practice makes perfect, and everybody should frequently practice reloading while moving...just in case you need that skill in the real world some day.

 

[ColbyBruce]

carry a few spare mags

 

[JH1951]

EDIT: If all of these decisions are made strictly on a statistical basis, it is clear that you probably will never need the primary weapon, so why carry at all? If your answer is, "well, but I might," then I submit that the answer to the spare ammo question should be given the same careful consideration of how the statistics just may not reflect the experience you may or may not have.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree. Many of us have heard about the statistician who drowned in the river that was 3 feet deep - on average. I guess an individual must make a decision for themself about what is "enough" when it comes to carrying. I am more than comfortable with one 1911 (that is highly reliable) and 8 rounds of .45 ACP for personal defense under normal circumstances. If I must reevaluate and consider the need to carry more, perhaps I should not be going where I am headed. I will say that when I went into combat situations in the Army I loaded and packed to the hilt, but even then one must stop somewhere to be able to move. Answer the question: What is practical to handle the circumstance that you anticipate? Then multiply by 1.5 and you should be fine. Works well for me, anyway, so let's just call it my humble opinion.

 

[CO_Kid]

I plan to carry a couple reloads in case I run into an escaped lion.

You never know. I live about 3 miles from the Serenity Springs Big Cat Sanctuary.

IMO, it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. All of my carry guns are sixguns. A speed strip in each front pants pocket (so I can access a reload with either hand) doesn't weigh much or take up too much space.

 

[kbm6893]

It comes down to what you are comfortable with. I have no room for a spare magazine in my pockets, and I don't feel the need to wear a mag pouch like I'm a cop again. In over 20 years of shooting regularly, I have never had a magazine "fail" to the point that I needed to dump it and get another one. Couple of jams over the years, but tap rack bang solved the problem. For a revolver, I guess a speedstrip or two wouldn't be an issue. They're pretty slim, but who reloads in a gunfight, especially with a speedstrip? Good luck with that as your fingers are trembling and the piss is still running down your legs.

Guess it couldn't hurt to have some spare ammo in the car, but again never felt the need. If i was travelling across country and was gonna be going through some real desolate areas, I probably would. But for now, I still don't.

I feel those who think they're going to have the presence of mind to reload and the dexterity to do it are pretty much fooling themselves. Now for home defense, sure I keep an extra mag or two in the safe. Not having to conceal them makes it a no brainer.

 

[Smoke]

but who reloads in a gunfight, especially with a speedstrip? Good luck with that as your fingers are trembling and the piss is still running down your legs.

I'd at least like the option to try

 

[hangnoose]

CHALLENGE?

I'm not gonna go into specifics, but in a panic situation unless you are an EXTREMELY well trained/cool customer you are not likely to be counting rounds. If you have ever shot a mag dry in anger, it is really an OH **** moment. I don't believe in ALWAYS or NEVER statements & don't want to trust my life/others lives to statistics. That said, if you did have to reload or change out a mag, I hope you have some REAL GOOD cover. I'm not about to criticize anyone's choice, at least you have a gun.

 

[Donn]

I am an armed citizen, not a street soldier. I carry minimal equipment--gun and mag.

^^^ Precisely ^^^ If you have to reload, it's no longer self defense, it's a fire fight. If that's the case, you're in deep sierra and better be fighting your way to a long gun.

 

[Jessie]

And I challenge you to find an example of a CCW holder in a a critical incident who ran out of bullets before he ran out of bad guys. Like the "blood in the streets" predictions of CCW opponents, it just doesn't happen . . .

There was the young mother hiding in her attic with children who emptied her 5 shot revolver into the BG.
I may be wrong, but I don't think he died, at least then and there, he left.
True, there was only one BG and 5 did the job. But just barely.
I would hate to be in that situation and out of ammo.
That's just me, though.

 

[OFT II]

I seriously doubt that I will ever be in a defensive situation where I would need to reload but if I did get in such a mess I sure would like to be able to so.