A 1911 that was Elmer Keith's

[LJBrennan007]

Sharing your story of the Keith 1911 makes us love you

So, it is beyond cool that you have acquired a totally awesome piece of firearm (and Americana) history. What's even MORE cool is that you have offered up your story and the story behind the gun to all of us who actually understand and appreciate its importance. I looked at Elmer's guns (online) before they went to auction and saw what they went for afterwards. (Oh, how I wish I could have afforded his Ruger Number 1 in .458, just because, but that's another story) Understandably, they went to wealthy folks who could afford them. Unfortunately, most of them will be in collections that will never see the light of day or ever be heard from or about again. So, THANK YOU for sharing, and don't worry about the money you spend--they make more of that every day, but they don't make Elmer Keith owned Springfield 1911's any more.

 

[Gryff]

Hey, golly gosh. Look. Elmer Keith ALSO did not know anything about guns.

Look right there in Elmer's gun collection list, in his own hand. Captain Strong fired 7 CLIPS at Germans.

7 clips. Wow. You'd think that someone as well-known as Elmer Keith would KNOW that 1911s didn't use CLIPS. They used MAGAZINES.

Or he didn't care. That's what works for me.

 

[mike454]

E.A. Price wrote a number of articles in the American Rifleman around the time Elmer started writing for them. One of Elmer's first published writings was a letter to Price.

 

[CLASSIC12]

Amazing gun, fantastic purchase, and great write-up, including the research about Captain Strong. Thanks a lot indeed for sharing. Now that estimate seemed pretty low.

I understand you were in the auction room, bidding and fighting live for that particular gun, must have been quite an experience. And I agree, regardless of the amount invested, you are now the custodian of an unique piece of American gun history. And I guess whatever you have to sell does not come close to this 1911.

Very nice trio too.

 

[snake803]

Why yes, yes there is. Elmer scratched his initials in there it would appear, and a date:




I'm thinking it's 1924?

Ooh, good point.

I may need to get some scrap ivory and see about replacing it.

I would be honored to send you a piece of scrap ivory for that front sight...
PM me...
JIM.......

 

[OldNorthState]

Most enthralling post...

In my relatively brief tenure as a member of this forum, as well as a long-time E. Keith book owner, reader and fan, this particular post has to be one of - if not the most - enthralling ones, overall, I've followed here. And that includes many of the replies/comments postings, also.

Excellent posting, and "congrats" on such an impressive acquisition.

 

[Swengen]

Fascinating! Absolutely fascinating. Thanks for sharing with us.

 

[austinjeane]

Hey, golly gosh. Look. Elmer Keith ALSO did not know anything about guns.

Look right there in Elmer's gun collection list, in his own hand. Captain Strong fired 7 CLIPS at Germans.

7 clips. Wow. You'd think that someone as well-known as Elmer Keith would KNOW that 1911s didn't use CLIPS. They used MAGAZINES.

In Keith's day, the term clips and magazines were used interchangeably.

 

[MOONDAWG]

I've got an idea that could help you recoup some of the cost of the gun. Former TV & Movie Celebrities do it all the time.

Next time there's a big ta-do at your gun club you can charge $25 to anyone who wants their picture made holding the gun.

And for the meager sum of $100 they'd get to fire it...once.

 

[153]

SS,

I'm sure Elmer would have replaced the bead in the front sight, but don't think you should... I'd leave it as is. "Any antique" retains its value if you don't mess with it. Imagine, fixing the Mona Lisa's crooked smile or washing the Shroud of Turin! Look at the wonderful "patina" on the back of those ivory grips ... that smudge is from Elmer shooting it!

Looking for rust ... I'll bet that it's pretty clean. As long as you don't put the pistol in a foam case or store it on the garage workbench, it will be fine. That's a beautiful relic of one of greatest hand-gunners there ever was. You are a custodian ... shoot it if you must, but don't alter it either!!!

 

[stinsonbeach]

Hey, golly gosh. Look. Elmer Keith ALSO did not know anything about guns.

Look right there in Elmer's gun collection list, in his own hand. Captain Strong fired 7 CLIPS at Germans.

7 clips. Wow. You'd think that someone as well-known as Elmer Keith would KNOW that 1911s didn't use CLIPS. They used MAGAZINES.

Hey, guess I'm considered an "old timer," but when I was in "The Crotch" back in '68 the term "clip" was in general usage for mags. No? Ask around.

ps ... lose the "snark"

 

[A10]

SS,

I'm sure Elmer would have replaced the bead in the front sight, but don't think you should... I'd leave it as is. "Any antique" retains its value if you don't mess with it. Imagine, fixing the Mona Lisa's crooked smile or washing the Shroud of Turin! Look at the wonderful "patina" on the back of those ivory grips ... that smudge is from Elmer shooting it!

Looking for rust ... I'll bet that it's pretty clean. As long as you don't put the pistol in a foam case or store it on the garage workbench, it will be fine. That's a beautiful relic of one of greatest hand-gunners there ever was. You are a custodian ... shoot it if you must, but don't alter it either!!!

See now there ya go....I'd probably paint the Shroud of Turin on the Mona Lisa..........

 

[ContinentalOp]

I don't really have anything to add, except that there's just something about a blued 1911 with ivory grips that's just...right. Know what I mean?

 

[Modified]

SS,

I'm sure Elmer would have replaced the bead in the front sight, but don't think you should... I'd leave it as is. "Any antique" retains its value if you don't mess with it. Imagine, fixing the Mona Lisa's crooked smile or washing the Shroud of Turin! Look at the wonderful "patina" on the back of those ivory grips ... that smudge is from Elmer shooting it!

Looking for rust ... I'll bet that it's pretty clean. As long as you don't put the pistol in a foam case or store it on the garage workbench, it will be fine. That's a beautiful relic of one of greatest hand-gunners there ever was. You are a custodian ... shoot it if you must, but don't alter it either!!!

I must say this is what I have been wrestling with.

In the end I think I will attempt to replace it for the simple reason that it's a non-destructive change to the gun, and it could be very easily reversed.

As far as the back of the grips goes, there was rust, which is why they look like that. I gently removed the rust with oil, a cotton cloth, and a bit of elbow grease, and have oiled the gun with Breakfree CLP. It really did need it.

As far as firing the gun goes, it's in good working order and it's a hardy design with a whole lot of life in it. With some care and good quality ammunition I don't feel that shooting it will be detrimental to the gun at all. Furthermore this was Elmer Keith's modified gun, who knows how many rounds he put through this thing in his life. I almost think it's more wrong to not shoot it then to shoot it and enjoy it fully.

In any case I don't have much of a chance to get out to the range lately anyway, so I have lots of time to decide. I do have a friend who's dad is a Ranger, who I am pretty sure would be absolutely tickled to shoot this gun, so I do expect to have him shoot it. I've been out shooting with him and some of his guys when they were back from Afghanistan and the smiles on their faces as they put my pile of .45-70 through my 1874 rolling block was worth every penny of those ammo costs and exploded bowling pins. Maybe an odd thing to give back to our servicemen, but the happiness in that event really stuck with me.

In the end, I think the only time it will be shot is when someone is visiting that will get the right kind of thrill out of shooting it. If it were one of Keith's beautifully engraved guns I can't imagine taking out, but this gun? Even with the cost? It's still a shooter.

Besides, I don't want Elmer's ghost haunting me, and I think it would if I treated this gun as some sort of holy relic that should never be touched and enjoyed.


On another note, if you guys haven't seen the thread you should really read this; http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...424808-my-first-triple-lock-elmer-keiths.html

I am over the moon to own this 1911 (which should be obvious) but in my heart of hearts Beetledude got what I really wanted out of that auction. As sad as I am that those triple locks are not mine, I'm very happy that they went to him. He's a great guy who truly appreciates what he has and is happy to share pictures and information.

 

[-db-]

SS,

I'm sure Elmer would have replaced the bead in the front sight, but don't think you should... I'd leave it as is. "Any antique" retains its value if you don't mess with it. Imagine, fixing the Mona Lisa's crooked smile or washing the Shroud of Turin! Look at the wonderful "patina" on the back of those ivory grips ... that smudge is from Elmer shooting it!

Looking for rust ... I'll bet that it's pretty clean. As long as you don't put the pistol in a foam case or store it on the garage workbench, it will be fine. That's a beautiful relic of one of greatest hand-gunners there ever was. You are a custodian ... shoot it if you must, but don't alter it either!!!

I, too, wouldn't replace it. For one thing, no one knows exactly what the former bead looked like and as soon as it's replaced, watch someone find some old private correspondence wherein Keith describes accidentally knocking the bead off in a moment of carelessness or something like that.

Replacing the bead is an act of restoration, no matter how small or trivial, and isn't something I'd undertake on this particular piece.

 

[sniper007]

Restoring the front sight isn't going to make your pistol worth a dollar less, or a dollar more if done correctly. It's your gun, do what you want. If -- or when -- a time comes to sell, no buyer that "gets" what the gun is all about will give you grief either way. Just don't expect it to hold its value if you have it powder-coated pink.

There's absolutely no need to justify how much you paid for the gun or anything else. If I had the cash, I would have paid double what you paid.

Thank you for sharing the story and photos. What a trophy!

 

[Alpo]

In Keith's day, the term clips and magazines were used interchangeably.

That's the point I've been trying to make for years. Ever since the detachable box magazine was invented, it was called a clip.

Now, suddenly, in the last twenty or thirty years, people have decided that clips are not clips, that they should only be called magazines, and anyone that calls a clip a clip is a booger-eating moron.

I like to force these ALL-KNOWING FIREARM TERMINOLOGY people to see that the great gun experts of yesteryear called 'em clips. Elmer, Skeeter, Charlie Askins. Because they are clips.

 

[apex1]

I think it's very cool that you are going to shoot it. I would never fire it with those grips for fear that with their age, they would crack. The original grips would go back on only for display and with not a lot of tension on the grip screws. Maybe also install a new recoil spring simply for use when shooting the gun? I'd start with a pretty mild hand load as well. A lot of store bought ammo is pretty hot since it really needs to cycle such a wide range of firearms. Thank you for sharing the story and the photos.

 

[history-fan]

The auction sure missed the estimated sale range on that piece!

 

[Sprefix]

Whatever can be said of Keith, good or bad, I am a fan of his. This is an excellent thread......What a prize you have in that 1911!!!!!! Bravo Sir, BRAVO!!!!!