M&P 9 vs Glock 19

[kbm6893]

It's not really a mall ninja Seal thing. It's a safety thing. Yes keep your fingers of the trigger. One of the basic rules. This goes for every gun. People do screw up but it's not any better when you're pulling the slide off with a round still chambered

What is the mall ninja thing is the dumb phrasing they use, with the "booger hook off the bang switch". As if to say people who prefer a safety need to be spoken to like children.

And just what would happen if you pulled the slide off with a round chambered? Do people get shot like when you pull the trigger ?

And yes, it is one of the basic rules, and yet so many people screw them up. Just like "look both ways before crossing the street". How many people get hit every year?

 

[Llando88]

I guess you haven't seen any of the Hundreds threads discussing 'Apex Trigger Kits', or people looking for Extended Slide Locks, Extended Mag Releases, Conversion Barrels for the M&Ps (among other various 'Modification' threads)?
Seems like every page of threads has at least a couple threads where someone says "Why are there no parts for the M&P, like there are for Glocks?"

Most of my pistols are stock, but Many like to customize their pistols. Not necessarily because they NEED to, but because they like to tinker and WANT to.

Based on the poll below, it looks like about half the folks here mod there guns:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...ey-stock-modification-internals-your-m-p.html

 

[Rastoff]

If you're field stripping the gun without
clearing it first you already have problems.

Yes, you do, but I already said that in my post.

Pulling the trigger on a Glock is not the issue.

This is indeed the issue.

To clear a gun, there is a specific procedure. Get it wrong and you'll have a negligent discharge (ND). First, remove the ammunition source. Then rack the slide to remove the round from the chamber. Get this backward and you'll have an ND every time.

If the sear disconnect is used in the M&P, it is impossible to have an ND while removing the slide. This is because the slide must be locked back before the lever is moved. If, for some incredulous reason, the round in the chamber is not extracted, and the owner doesn't see it, by disconnecting the sear the striker won't be cocked and therefore, won't hit the primer of the chambered cartridge. Thus the slide comes off and no ND.

By requiring the trigger pull to remove the slide, any complacency and the gun will fire. You probably won't have this problem, but thousands of people have.

 

[A.J. Stoner]

I love the M&P and I'm starting to get reasonably handy with it. I have fired my brother's Glock a few times but, despite the close similarities of the two designs, I can't hit a damned thing with it. Plus, and I confess this to be petty, the Glock is just ugly to me. It's like a gun version of the Volvo. Sure, it works and all but--meh...

 

[SoCalDep]

Here's the question:
Have you owned a Glock? Have you switched from the Glock to the M&P? If so, why? Is there something about the Glock in particular you didn't like?

I'm considering buying a Gen 3 G19 (can't get a Gen 4 in CA) because I think it's the best middle of the road Glock. Still, if there is a particular flaw, I'd like to know about it.

Like you, we have lots of students with Glocks and for me that alone is a reason to get one to build proficiency.

Now the back-story:

The second handgun I purchased after turning 21 was a Glock 23. It was 100% reliable and I liked it...Until I started really shooting 1911s (A Para P-13LTD was my first handgun and it's lack of reliability caused a slow progression back to the 1911 platform). I began competing with 1911s and ended up owning several. I was also using the 1911 almost exclusively in tactical training classes.

When I was hired by my department the issue handgun was the Beretta 92FS. Needless to say, being a "1911 guy" I was NOT happy. I grew to love that big heavy thing and to this day it's one of my favorite handguns. I sold the Glock and slowly sold all but one of my 1911s because we couldn't carry them. In 2009 I bought a Glock 17. I really wanted a 19 but the store was out of stock and I was impulsive and impatient, so I picked up the Glock 17. I hated it. It was unreliable and I couldn't hit a damn thing. I traded it to the local gun shop for...A Beretta .25 Jetfire. (I bought it as a fun gun and to practice making pocket holsters). I had no regrets.

Fast forward a few years and I'm a firearms instructor for my department. We train several agencies on Glocks and while nothing is perfect they work very well...So I purchased a NIB Glock 19 from one of my fellow instructors and now I'm hooked! The 19 is to me the ideal compromise size. It is big enough for duty or as a military sidearm, small enough to conceal, holds 15+ rounds in the magazine, and is utterly reliable. I replaced the horrible factory plastic sights with a set of Defoor Tactical (all black) sights and other than that it's stock. If I could only have one gun for ever and ever it would be a toss up between the Glock 19 and a 1911...The Glock would probably win.

I like 1911s, and M&Ps, and Glocks, and Berettas, and S&W 3rd Gens, etc...

I think the M&P trigger sucks compared to Glock out of the box, but can be made very good, and maybe even better.

I think you will find that if you're really used to the 1911 the Glock will be hard to run the trigger well and you may get frustrated (I did back when I was shooting 1911s). Now that I've shot M&Ps a lot, the Glock seems to me to be an improvement and I'm very happy with the accuracy.

Funny enough, while a couple of years ago I'd say it would never happen, it seems Glocks AND 1911s just might be an option in the near future. I will be broke. Very....very....broke.

 

[Rastoff]

...horrible factory plastic sights...

What is the deal with the plastic sights? Are people just afraid they'll break off? Are they not easy to see? I've held a few Glocks and the sights are OK for me. I didn't realize they were plastic, but they seemed OK.

Is there a reason to replace them other than the fact that they're plastic?

 

[schgsd]

I have never held a single Glock that felt right in my hand.

That being said I would never own one simply because of things I am reading about Gaston himself. Just like wanting to purchase things made in the US, I also prefer to support companies with the appearance of decent character and concern for the customer. An example being the lifetime warranty offered by S&W.

Gaston I guess seems to be a total rumpswab. Not someone I'd be proud to have supported.

Bearing ArmsGlock v. Glock: Inside the firearms family civil trial | Human Events

 

[bulldogman]

I had no problem with the plastic sights on my Glock. I think some look at everything from a combat point of view and want to be able to rack the slide one handed so plastic is unacceptable, whatever works for you but for me the plastic sights are serviceable.

 

[SoCalDep]

What is the deal with the plastic sights? Are people just afraid they'll break off? Are they not easy to see? I've held a few Glocks and the sights are OK for me. I didn't realize they were plastic, but they seemed OK.

Is there a reason to replace them other than the fact that they're plastic?

It's 95% a personal preference thing. I hate the wide front sight. Hate it. Loath it!

I have seen a couple factory Glock front sights come loose...I've seen a few S&W front sights (and rear sights) come loose as well. I have a couple exemplar Glock 17s at work and both of the plastic front sights have been wacked against something and deformed. I bet they had to be wacked pretty hard.

Overall the factory sights are serviceable. I just don't like them. At all. Deal-breaker like. I won't own a Glock with factory sights.

 

[Rastoff]

Gaston I guess seems to be a total rumpswab. Not someone I'd be proud to have supported.

That was an interesting read. While I agree with you in principle, it's not a practically possible course of action.

What was shown in that article is not uncommon at that level of wealth. I cannot attest for Mr. Glock's character. If I were to base my purchases on my dislike for the lascivious lifestyles of the rich corporate leaders and how it affects their acquaintances, I'd never buy anything.

 

[jrod]

I used to own a G17 gen3. I loved the simplicity. After a half hour video, I had it to pieces, and back again. If I closed my eyes, picked it up and pointed it, then opened my eyes, it was lined up perfectly. The only problem was that with that perfect grip, I couldn't properly reach the trigger. And I don't have small hands. By the time I shifted my grip to reach the trigger, it was no longer perfectly aligned. And my groups showed it.

The M&P feels much better in the hand, but doesn't aim as naturally. I still shoot it better than the g17. Maybe one day I'll try to get a gen 4, but with the prices as they are in MA ( $800+ for a new one ), I'll have to get very lucky before trying
I actually like the looks of the glock. If I could get a gen4 for $500 or so, I'd probably pick one up. Just for the simplicity and ability to replace any part of it with minimal tools.

I got my Glock Gen-4s for $398.00 each in Ca.

 

[Dfresh15]

I actually just picked up a Glock 19. Also have an M&P 45. The trigger in the Glock is way better than an M&P. But now that I have added the APEX FSS Trigger Kit to my M&P 45, the trigger is now comparable to a stock Glock. Love both guns.

 

[windows2003]

I did shoot the glock 17 manny years back when it just came on the market in Belgium - Europe, and I was finding it a nice and good pistol for duty and shooting on the steel range at that time, however for target shoot on 25M or 30M I did found it not so accurate like the Sig Sauer. But it was the first polymer gun and it was OK.
I also did buy recently an M&P 9L performance center ported pistol, and I need to say it's a good pistol, did also modified it with an Leupold DeltaPoint and yeah it does do a nice job on the range, but when I shoot it on 25M or 30M rapid fire it is less accurate then mine Sig X-five SAO 9MM.
Personally I find the trigger from mine M&P a difficult trigger, certainly if you shoot a lot with sig X-five. Changing the trigger, will certainly give the gun better results in accuracy.
Problem for Europeans is, that the M&P aftermarket triggers and poducts are not well supported, and gun shops aren't same like I can see in the US. Here they just sell a gun, nothing more nothing less...don't ask question, because they can't answerd it! If I look to Glock, we can get everything you almost can imagine for those pistols, same for Sig! So, Smith is very poor supported into Europe, and why???
But after all, I'm happy I've an M&P 9L, US guns are good, just like mine remington rifles and winchester rifle.
About the price, In mine country the Sig Sauer guns are really expensive, but all the 3 sigs I've are good and accurate & does have a very good trigger. A M&P or Glock is 1/3 of the price.
All the information I read about glock or smith or sig is better, I find personally b****t
You take the gun into youre hands, does it feel good or not? If not, don't buy it, beacuse you will be disappointed!
So, I love the M&P , the Sig X-5, the Sig SLII & the Glock...

 

[keithherrington]

Lots of experience with both

I started shooting Glocks back when the Model 17 first came out on the market, long before they were widely accepted by anybody. Since that time I've owned quite a few in a variety of calibers to include 45ACP, 40 S&W, 357 SIG and 9mm. Simply put I never liked any of them for a variety of reasons. The grip is extremely uncomfortable to me (a long time revolver and 1911 shooter). It always felt like I was holding a 2X4 rather than a pistol grip. The safety lever in the trigger and the trigger itself is not shaped well for my trigger finger. The sights are cheesy and easily damaged. And the grip angle is off for me when shooting at speed. I can shoot it accurately and fast but don't care for it at all. Glock has attempted to address some of my criticisms but never to my satisfaction.

In sharp contrast the M&P in both 45 and 9 (both of which I own multiple copies of) was an immediate and resounding success with me. Mechanically, it is so close to the Glock as to appear to be a clone, so no difference there. But ergonomically the M&P is a marvel of design and execution. The standard backstrap is just right for my hand; it points naturally and is everything the Glock is in terms of ease of handling and controls. But everything is not perfect. While the 45s I have are accurate right out of the box, not so with the 9mm until the one I just bought a few months ago (late 2014 production). I eventually got the earlier one to shoot well but it took S&W installing a new fast twist barrel to make it happen, and while only a modest cost, was irritating that I had to pay to have it done. Second, trigger control is different from any gun I have ever shot and takes some getting used to. It's far more like my revolvers than any automatic I've ever shot. That is the reason I've transitioned to the M&P for carry and for IDPA, leaving my 1911s for only bullseye.

Keith

 

[Pointblank2U]

I own over a dozen Glocks. I'm not in love with the brand, but they do always work. I have yet to have a malfunction in any of the calibers I own. Awhile back I picked up a couple 9mm Shields because I liked the form and size. They are good guns, but definitely not reliable with just any type of ammuntion. Revolvers have always been S&W's strong suit.

 

[schgsd]

That was an interesting read. While I agree with you in principle, it's not a practically possible course of action.

What was shown in that article is not uncommon at that level of wealth. I cannot attest for Mr. Glock's character. If I were to base my purchases on my dislike for the lascivious lifestyles of the rich corporate leaders and how it affects their acquaintances, I'd never buy anything.

Not knowing him personally I can't either, and I admit to having bought my L9-A1 long before ever reading that. I picked the Steyr solely on how well it felt in my hand, top 5 trigger rating and ambi mag release. I get it when people say Glocks have no soul, because to me if you look at one they defy any aesthetic quality that could have been imparted into them. All I see is a weapon designed by people who punched a clock. One wonders if Gaston's low moral character filtered down through the ranks and that's what people pick up on.

 

[Rastoff]

I get it when people say Glocks have no soul, because to me if you look at one they defy any aesthetic quality that could have been imparted into them. All I see is a weapon designed by people who punched a clock. One wonders if Gaston's low moral character filtered down through the ranks and that's what people pick up on.

Maybe his character did filter through to the design. Rather than see a philanderer though, I see function over form. Maybe it is his penchant for blandness that led to the divorce? Who knows?

To me, the Glock is elegant. It is simplicity realized in an auto loading pistol. Not counting the magazine, the Glock only has 28 parts. In a combat pistol, simple is better.

Soul? I don't understand that in the context of a combat or self-defense pistol. Who cares about soul when your life is on the line? What I want is a pistol that works and I can hit the target with. Everything else, and I do mean everything, is a tertiary concern.

This gun has soul:

Then again, it was hand made one at a time. It only shoots one shot at a time and costs...well...a lot more than a Glock.

 

[kbm6893]

I have never held a single Glock that felt right in my hand.

That being said I would never own one simply because of things I am reading about Gaston himself. Just like wanting to purchase things made in the US, I also prefer to support companies with the appearance of decent character and concern for the customer. An example being the lifetime warranty offered by S&W.

Gaston I guess seems to be a total rumpswab. Not someone I'd be proud to have supported.

Bearing ArmsGlock v. Glock: Inside the firearms family civil trial | Human Events

I will admit my issue with Glock is personal. The NYPD switched over to 9MM back in 1993. Officers had a choice of 3 pistols, the Glock 19, S&W 5946, and SIG 226. SIG and 5946 were both DAO, of course.

Soon after they came on the scene, the Glock 19 began having problems. Thery were experiencing phase 3 malfunctions. Neither of the other two guns were. I had one once during qualification, I saw several other guys have them during quals, too. There were several documented cases of them happening during street shootings with armed suspects.

The job contacted Glock. Since Glock feels they are "perfection", they told us it was the fault of the duty ammo we had at the time, a 115 grain fmj bullet. The SIG and the 5946 had no issues with the older duty ammo.So we switched to Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P. No change in malfunctions.

So the job called Glock again. Got the run-around for over 6 months. The NYPD finally contacted Ruger to get a quote on gun purchases for nearly 10,000 pistols.

So Glock finally takes notice. Sends a full time armorer to the NYPD range. Recalls ALL Glocks in service. Gives loaner guns to cops while they re-cut the ejection port to a 45 degree angle.

Bottom line, Glock let over 10,00 cops walk the beat with a gun that had issues for over 18 months. They only got off their *** when they were about to lose the biggest PD contract they had in the country, not to mention the bad publicity that would follow.

So I no longer own that Model 19. Kind of wish I still did, just cause it was my duty gun. Had a 26, too. Got that before all the fallout from the 19 issue. Sold them both.

 

[ClayCow]

Maybe his character did filter through to the design. Rather than see a philanderer though, I see function over form. Maybe it is his penchant for blandness that led to the divorce? Who knows?

To me, the Glock is elegant. It is simplicity realized in an auto loading pistol. Not counting the magazine, the Glock only has 28 parts. In a combat pistol, simple is better.

Soul? I don't understand that in the context of a combat or self-defense pistol. Who cares about soul when your life is on the line? What I want is a pistol that works and I can hit the target with. Everything else, and I do mean everything, is a tertiary concern.

This gun has soul:

Then again, it was hand made one at a time. It only shoots one shot at a time and costs...well...a lot more than a Glock.

what the hell is that?

I personally find glocks beautiful. Just because you think my baby is ugly doesnt mean everyone thinks my baby is ugly.

 

[Rastoff]

what the hell is that?

That is a Ljutic Mono Gun ARS with a custom stock made from Bastogne walnut. Only about 20 were ever made.