What SD Ammo in an Airweight J-Frame?

[BB57]

I agree with most of this but at the range you would typically use a J-Frame it really doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

You get typically 5 chances to disable your attacker with J-Frame at what is probably not going to be a lot of distance. The bullet used will be less important then shot placement.

+P would be my choice in a reliable fragmenting load. I would also carry a 45 or 10mm as a backup.

No in all seriousness, shot placement is going to determine the outcome more so then the load you are using. Head shot may or may not disable a big attacker but it is a good bet. A groin shot that will bust the hip will put them on the ground pretty reliably as well. But a heart shot will not necessarily stop them in time if they have knife. If they have a gun your probably screwed anyway so the head shot is the best but not certain.

But one thing for certain a magic bullet is not going to save your butt it will be situational awareness and shot placement. You will get 5 chances maybe six in some revolvers better be sure you can hit em where it counts before they can shoot you. Remember they are not deer and can possibly shoot back. You LEO's out there, how many times do you arrest a low life thug that doesn't at least have a knife? What was that... a 21ft rule? Seems like the effective range for a snubby.

It's true that if an officer is just standing there on the X that out 9 times out of 10 an assailant with a knife at a distance of less than 20 or so feet will be able to stick an officer before the officer can draw and shoot. It's even worse with concealed carry and the slower draw that results.

That's the reason why you don't want to just stand there on the "X" being a target. To reach you quickly the knife wielding assailant has to reach you quickly, and that requires rushing at you as fast as he or she can. That creates momentum, and that momentum makes it hard for them to turn and follow you if you move off their line of attack.

Consequently, when they rush you as you begin to draw, side step quickly to their off hand side. The assailant will try to follow you but his higher speed and momentum will mean he has a much larger turn radius. As he continues to turn into you, keep side stepping 90 degrees away from his line of advance. Assuming he is right handed, what will result is a spiral to your right and forward, where he loses speed and tightens his radius trying to get to you. But it will take 3-4 seconds for him to reach you, which is plenty of time for you to draw, fire, and hit him repeatedly. Keep the weapon close in, in a retention position, and side step rather than crossing your feet to avoid tripping yourself.

In the event you're in a confined area and can't move to the side, you can increase the available time by moving back, but you're better off meeting the charge to deflect the knife, they draw and shoot him from a close in retention position.

If possible practice shooting while moving. Shooting at a target 3-5 yards away while sidestepping straight to the side works fine without violating the 180 rule on a range. You can also practice pretty much anywhere with dummy rounds.

----

In general you are correct, most LEOs don't shoot nearly enough to become proficient in real world shooting involving shooting and movement, and most civilians spend most of their time discussing firearm, ammo and holster selections while not shooting nearly enough. Their priorities are screwed up.

 

[Clasher]

ammo

Hornady Critical Defense .38 Special +P 110 GR FTX

 

[Florida J Frame]

158 grain round nose is a good choice. Before the invention of +P , special hollow points and self-defense loads, a lot of cops carried them and probably terminated a lot of bad guys with them. That was before we found out the load was such a pathetic killer. More than likely your fixed sights are regulated to this exact load and should be fine for practice.....and may not be that bad for defense use either.
Gary

Gary, can you quote any factual info that proves that the 158gr RN is even remotely a good choice for self defense today?

 

[Budnjax]

the old stand-by

is still a good one: 158 grain lead SWC-HP, +P....great self-defense cartridge used by police and others for many years.

 

[transit]

...Still, I'd like to know of a good place to buy that damn FBI load.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/431001-38-spl-street-ammunition-online-availability-note.html

 

[BB57]

is still a good one: 158 grain lead SWC-HP, +P....great self-defense cartridge used by police and others for many years.

It's a good load in a 4" service revolver, but at 2" velocities it has problems with reliable expansion.

 

[captaint]

I'll soon be loading both some 38 Spl and some .380 ammo. I have a model 60 and a PPK/S that I'll be carrying from time to time. I won't be loading any round nose bullets. I have some 100gr RNFP bullets for the .380 and 158gr RNFP bullets for the .38..I cast these myself. I'm a believer in the wide, flat meplat type bullet for self defense. No worries about expansion, plenty of tissue damage and adequate penetration.
Velocities will be as high as I can safely go in both guns. We'll see how it goes. Lots of chrono testing coming up.

 

[thibaultfelix40]

My Snubby Air-weight is a 317.
I loaded all 10 cylinders with Sub-Sonic 40 Grain.

Mine only holds 8 rounds of what ever cheap stuff I can find.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I don't presently have an Airweight. When I did carry a M37 , it was always loaded with 158+P LHP . Usually W-W , but if R-P or Fed was what was available , I didn't sweat it. In the modern times GD 135 would be a coin toss.

I carried +P for social purposes , wether or not it was "recomended" . It was the guns's job to protect me , not the other way around.

If you want non- +P on purpose , search out some Federal 125 Nyclad.. For reduced recoil specifically PowerBall , albeit +P rated.

Yeah , I know , lots of people carried Wadecutters back in the day. No matter what reasons they profered to themselves or others why this was a good idea , it was a euphanism for " I am incapable of having any semblance of accuraccy or control with anything better" . At some level I suppose this could be a form of knowing your limitations , but the prefered stratagies would be either practicing more , or carrying a somewhat heavier BUG that they could shoot adaquately with better ammo.

FWIW , while beyond the scope of the OP's inquiry , my 2in K Frames likewise are filled with W-W 158 +P LHP. If I ever stumbled upon 135 GD while flush , I guess I'd have to do group shooting for tiebreaker.

 

[scruffy]

Hornady American Gunner 38 Spl 125 gr Xtp - these SD carry hollow points are great for low recoil, hit is powerful and outstanding for a S&W J frame or my S@W bodyguard 38

I use the .380 version in my LCP. Excellent round with good marks in penetration AND expansion in many tests.

 

[Redhawk500]

I'm using Remington 38 Special +P 125gr SJHP

I carry these in S&W 37 and 442. I don't practice with these however, using 148 gr bevel base dual end wadcutters hand loaded with 3.8 gr Titegroup, I use solid cast bullets without a skirt as the velocities and powder charges are significantly reduced with 146 grain LBBWC.

 

[SW340PD]

Shooting To Live

It's true that if an officer is just standing there on the X that out 9 times out of 10 an assailant with a knife at a distance of less than 20 or so feet will be able to stick an officer before the officer can draw and shoot. It's even worse with concealed carry and the slower draw that results.

That's the reason why you don't want to just stand there on the "X" being a target. To reach you quickly the knife wielding assailant has to reach you quickly, and that requires rushing at you as fast as he or she can. That creates momentum, and that momentum makes it hard for them to turn and follow you if you move off their line of attack.

Consequently, when they rush you as you begin to draw, side step quickly to their off hand side. The assailant will try to follow you but his higher speed and momentum will mean he has a much larger turn radius. As he continues to turn into you, keep side stepping 90 degrees away from his line of advance. Assuming he is right handed, what will result is a spiral to your right and forward, where he loses speed and tightens his radius trying to get to you. But it will take 3-4 seconds for him to reach you, which is plenty of time for you to draw, fire, and hit him repeatedly. Keep the weapon close in, in a retention position, and side step rather than crossing your feet to avoid tripping yourself.

In the event you're in a confined area and can't move to the side, you can increase the available time by moving back, but you're better off meeting the charge to deflect the knife, they draw and shoot him from a close in retention position.

If possible practice shooting while moving. Shooting at a target 3-5 yards away while sidestepping straight to the side works fine without violating the 180 rule on a range. You can also practice pretty much anywhere with dummy rounds.

----

In general you are correct, most LEOs don't shoot nearly enough to become proficient in real world shooting involving shooting and movement, and most civilians spend most of their time discussing firearm, ammo and holster selections while not shooting nearly enough. Their priorities are screwed up.

I read a book titled Shooting to Live that made me rethink how i'm training and which ammo is best. This is way off track from the orig question about ammo choices. Sorry.

 

[exdetsgt]

However, it's still valuable information, especially for those snubby owners who may be unaware of the magnitude of the threat of an assailant armed with a knife.

While in the Arizona Ranger Academy I saw it demonstrated. One young and agile recruit, armed with a blue rubber knife, stood in the aisle 20 feet from the instructor, who was in uniform and carrying a pink toy Glock in a holster in full duty rig.

Even though the instructor knew what was about to happen, he was unable to get his Glock into a shooting position before the assailant touched him with the rubber knife. A lesson I never forgot.

 

[chasmatic]

fixed sights regulated

FWIW,
I've also found that 158g bullets strike closer to the point of aim with all of my fixed sight 38s than any other weight of bullet in a commercial load. So my carry load is the 158g FBI load, either the BB standard pressure or the Remington +Ps.

I may be wrong but I think S & W regulates all their fixed sights .38s with a 158g round.

 

[oldsaggyman]

hello; i have carried an old j frame airweight for protection for years, loaded with fmj..about 10 years ago picked up a 38 bodyguard. started reloading and carry both with silvertips now. however, perhaps too much reading on the web has gotten me to question my choice. i picked up a box of hornady ftx to reload for the 38's. anyone out there have experiance with them for loading for protection, and if so, what powder and load do you use? thank you all.

 

[wrangler5]

I may be wrong but I think S & W regulates all their fixed sights .38s with a 158g round.

That's my understanding. And that it has been so for a VERY long time.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

However, it's still valuable information, especially for those snubby owners who may be unaware of the magnitude of the threat of an assailant armed with a knife.

While in the Arizona Ranger Academy I saw it demonstrated. One young and agile recruit, armed with a blue rubber knife, stood in the aisle 20 feet from the instructor, who was in uniform and carrying a pink toy Glock in a holster in full duty rig.

Even though the instructor knew what was about to happen, he was unable to get his Glock into a shooting position before the assailant touched him with the rubber knife. A lesson I never forgot.

For most folks these days I'd recommend drawing one's sidearm when seeing a knife at 28 feet or more, especially if you're carrying concealed. You can keep it out of sight, but have it in your hand. At 21 feet bring it up to high ready. If the assailant comes at you at that distance, you can engage effectively.

I have scars to show the problem of someone getting too close...

 

[daddy bear]

I'm with several others here. My four J-frames are all old timers. 2 ea 60s no dash and an earlier 37 and 42. I am presently loaded with 110 Silver Tips. I would gladly buy the the pictured Federal Hydrashock.

Many years ago, I ruined the cylinder (stretch, no blow up) of a fine C prefix K frame, shooting the Treasury 125+P on a hot day. The ammo and gun were unshaded, but it makes me wary of the hotter loads in older revolvers.

Jack

 

[Lt JL]

where are you guys finding that Federal Classic .38 special +P LSWHP?

 

[Retired & Glad of it!]

Some years ago, right after my first session with my S&W, 642 I replaced the Bantam Grips with full-sized Hogue. Concern that recoil from a 38+P might cause the Airweight Frame to pop out of my hand went away. At close range it's enough bang to stop nearly anything but a Great Ape or Bull Elephant.