Guns In Vehicles: Don't Do It.

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My state also has a long list of "prohibited places", some of which I have to visit frequently and have metal detectors (e.g. schools and courthouses). I keep a safe cabled to a support in the trunk for those times.

In addition to all the auto burglaries I worked where citizens' guns were stolen, I have been involved in 3 cases in which a LEO's issued weapon was stolen in smash and grab auto burgs, 2 involving the same federal LEO. Yes, he is still on the job. Had an agent from an agency with "Firearms" in its name leave a very nice 2.5 " M66 under the seat of my vehicle.

Now I take additional precautions. Not because I'm afraid of a lawsuit, but because I have an aversion to arming punks.

But as the Duke put it "A man ought to do what he thinks best".
 
I occasionally leave a gun in my locked car and I have no more problem with that then I do when I leave my locked house and leave several pistols hidden or out in the open. Am I afraid of a lawsuit if someone steals them - No - What happens to them after they are stolen is not my responsibility. I have every reason to believe that my property will be exactly where I left it, behind locked doors, which in my world is considered stored properly and responsibly.
While reading thru this thread someone mentioned moving arms across the country. It brought back memories of my move a couple years ago. The Uhaul guy told me that thieves would steal the whole truck and take it elsewhere to unload the cargo. So I loaded several safes in the deepest part of the truck and stopped at motels for four nights for the wife and kids, while I slept in the cab of the Uhaul with a 44 mag at the ready. Ha, its amazing what we will do to protect our weapons. Sorry I drifted off topic, its 2:00 AM must be tired
 
Our policy at work states that our issued firearms have to be under lock and key when unattended. The only firearm that stays in my take home car is the issued 12 gauge pump shotgun cased in the trunk. I don't know what BLM's policy is regarding storage of agency firearms, but I bet it is similar.
I know of officers at my work who lock their firearms in the trunk of their car when they come home to keep the guns out of the house for various reasons. Technically, they are within policy. However, one of our staff had his personal vehicle broken into in an adjacent city and had his duty belt, weapon, and all other gear on the belt stolen, along with his SORT gear bag. The belt, minus weapon and mags, was recovered in an alley a day later. Weapon, ammo, and SORT gear bag is still out there somewhere.
I do not leave my personal weapons in my personal car unless I can watch the vehicle while I am away from it and never overnight. There are too many vehicle break ins in our area for me to ever consider the idea of a dedicated car gun. We all have to live with the choices we make and at least we still have some leeway to choose for ourselves what we do.
 
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In Texas every citizen (non-felon, etc) has the right to bear arms within their vehicle, without a permit. This undoubtedly leads to more than a few firearms left sitting in cars. You must keep it out of site and out of reach of children, according to the law. A car-safe is a good idea but not a requirement. My best advice would be lock the gun up, tint your windows, get an alarm on your car, and avoid leaving the gun in the car if at all possible. Bring it with you.

My FIRST concern would not be theft; it would be heat. Baking your carry ammo in a car that gets 120F+ easily is not a good idea. Forget the fact a lot of people carry hotter loads, or even +P, and these get even "hotter" the higher the temps rise. You could have a catastrophic failure if you had to use the gun.
 
I have heard that confession is good for the soul. Yesterday I was an unresponsible outlaw. On the way home from the gun club I stopped at the post office and left 3 short guns and 2 long guns in my truck while I want inside the building. :eek::rolleyes: Larry
 
Golly guys. You all make me happy to live in the Montana boonies. You can pretty much count on most vehicles here having a firearm in them. Cars are locked up in the city, but in the rural communities, lots of folks leave the keys in their cars and trucks. An old timer told me "what if someone need to borrow it while I'm gone". Most everyone I associate with has a weapon on them at all times. Montana is an open carry state and it's common to see. We have very few accidental shootings, drive-bys, or breaking and enterings when folks are home. We do have a few liberal communities here, but most of Montana is still the land of the free.
 
The subject of guns in vehicles comes up all the time. You may even buy holsters or gun holders intended for "car carry." I always advise people not to leave guns in vehicles for any reason. As the firearms custodian for a federal law enforcement agency, I can attest that, nationwide, we've lost many guns stolen from vehicles, including at least a half dozen Remington 870s to be used at the range on the day they were stolen. And, we were a small law enforcement agency.

This brings us to the July 1st. fatal shooting of Kate Steinle on the San Francisco Pier by an illegal alien. The gun used was stolen from the parked vehicle of a federal agent assigned to the Bureau of Land Management.

First, if that was your gun, you now have to live with the fact you have unwittingly initiated a chain of events leading to the loss of life. Then, there's a question of potential civil liability. If I'm injured or killed with a lawfully owned firearm that was stored in a negligent manner, do I, or my next-of-kin have a cause of action? I would think so.

The circumstances under which a gun may be safely left in vehicles should be limited to when you are in direct sight of your vehicle, such as through a diner window or perhaps while you attend a little league ball game. In the case in question, the vehicle was broken into. More often, the vehicle itself is stolen. So, think twice about guns in vehicles. I don't know the extent of civil responsibility but I do know that I'm morally responsible if I allow a gun to get into the wrong hands.

Duly noted . . .
 
If the BLM is anything like my employer, that agent is about to feel the juice.

If it was an issued gun (or even a personally-owned approved-for-carry gun) he'll get jammed for failing to secure government property.

If it wasn't one of the above, he'll get jammed for having an unauthorized weapon in the car.

In a highly publicized case like this, no one will rally to his defense.

I don't know any of the specifics, but I suspect he was going in to the federal courthouse and didn't want to use the USMS lock boxes, electing instead to shove it under the seat. I've done it myself before, though I don't anymore after seeing a few dudes nailed to the cross for having their guns stolen.
 
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Regarding CCW in a post office:

That's just one example of the concept of right and wrong and the law being totally divorced from each other.

There is no wrong-doing involved with CCW in a post office.

The government and liberals have this thing about control.
 
For me, I don't even leave my Oakleys in my vehicle over night, let alone any guns. Of course most of us need to leave a gun in our cars from time to time or maybe you can't carry at work. That doesn't mean you should have to disarm to and from your job. Most of us want to keep our guns out of the criminals hands, but the problem is most of the small cabled lock boxes just aren't very secure. More of a feel good solution in my opinion. Unfortunately a locked car is not much of a deterrent either. Sure there are some stronger alternatives but they don't fit everyone's applications. All you can do is do your best to limit your exposure.
 
I think the whole issue of people choosing to temporarily store their sidearm in a vehicle can be laid to rest if we abide by two very simple rules:

1) Keep it stored in a secure compartment/container. It's not an aegis against theft, but any "inconvenience" borne by a car thief will reduce the odds that it'll disappear.

2) Don't advertise. The less people who know, the better. But this goes without saying. ;)
 
No one has broken into my cars in 40 years. But if I leave a gun in the console, it will be broken into. If you leave a gun in there, they'll know, and get it. It's like magic, or something.

Meanwhile, with hundreds of millions of guns in the country, whether or not you leave a gun in your car is not a limiting factor on bad guys' possession of guns.
 
Watchdog...

You're right on. No decals or anything showing what I might have. My vehicles and home are non descript in every way. When I go to the range and load all my stuff, I back in and close things up so I'm not seen from the street as to what I'm doing. Sure my long time, friendly neighbors know about my stuff, but no one going through the neighborhood does.

I have my M&P in the safe all the time in my truck, while I still have my M337 on me.

When I have to leave my carry, it goes in the safe too.

I'm definitely not mechanically challenged, it would take me quite some time with tools to get the safe open. It can't be seen, but yet, I can easily access it.

Common sense should always prevail in these matters. There are so many goofballs wanting to advertise, "I have guns"

The only surprise I care to give is when it is needed... my family and I are well armed and we're well trained.

We don't live in fear. We live quietly prepared and confident.

We're thankful and blessed even in the difficult times we're living in.
 
Let's place the blame, both morally and legally, where it really belongs. :)

That's right! On the City of San Fransisco[/QUOTE]

Actually Francisco Sanchez is here illegally and has been deported 5 times just got released from jail from a drug warrant San Francisco district attorney's office declined to prosecute him on, has seven felony convictions so I would say the feds were to blame as much for letting illegals in, tighten the boarder.

As for leaving a firearm in your vehicle if you can't store it in a locked safe container maybe you should leave it home. If I have to go someplace where I can't carry I lock it in a lock box out of sight as much as possible. As for felling guiltily I wouldn't blame myself as I didn't make the law where I couldn't keep my firearm on me and have control of it, and have to leave it in the vehicle in the first place.
 
Apparently you people have never had a car looted.Grab a brick,bust the window and clean it out.Takes 15 seconds and they are gone,think about it.

You are exactly right - breaking a window, grabbing whatever is handy and then departing the AO is exactly how the average thief works.

This is exactly why, if I have to leave my concealed carry firearm in the car, I leave it in a lock box that is either bolted under the passenger seat (my car) or cabled to the seat frame and placed out of sight under the passenger seat (spouse's car, rental car, etc).

One thing to consider however is that a break in usually starts with targeting a vehicle that has something of value visible in it. Whether it's a cell phone, purse, wallet, GPS, cash, credit card, etc, it's usually the sight of something of value in the car that prompts the person to target that vehicle. Sometimes it's secondary evidence of something valuable, like the faint ring left on the windshield by the suction cup of a GPS - that might be enough to prompt the thief to break the window to check in the center console or glove box.

If the inside of your car looks as clean inside as the a rental car you just picked up from Hertz, there's not much reason for a break in - a potential thief will pick a car with a more obvious return for his investment. If you have valuables in the car, make sure they are out of sight, along with any lock boxes, cables, etc.

Where you park matters. A locked garage adds another level of protection, a well lit parking space or a parking garage with video monitoring are also deterrents. Parking in a dark location in a bad neighborhood when you can't continuously observe your car is a really bad idea.

In the event someone does break in, they are not going to spend a great deal of time trying to remove hard to find and hard to remove items, so step two is to ensure any valuables in the car are also secured inside the car. A lock box bolted to the floor under a seat or secured with a heavy cable takes time to remove that the thief probably doesn't have or doesn't want to take.

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The point here is that yes, people should take some basic common sense measures to prevent guns from finding their way into the hands of criminals and prohibited individuals - but there is also a reasonableness standard that applies.

Expecting people to leave their concealed carry or self defense firearms at home just because they might get stolen from a car, is counter productive, as a gun left locked in your gun safe at home is worth absolutely nothing in a self defense situation when you are some where else. You'll never need a self defense handgun, until you need it real bad, and then, much like a parachute, if you don't have it when you need it, you'll likely never need anything ever again.

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As for law enforcement officers and keeping firearms in cars, the same common sense and reasonableness standards apply, plus a couple additional measures.

Police officers often carry weapons off duty in their cars. Unfortunately, those cars are often unmarked police cars - that look like unmarked police cars. It's also lost as bad when they have police association stickers, special license plates, portable emergency vehicle lights, etc, that scream "off duty police officer's car - weapon inside". You need to avoid that.

Police officers also often carry go bags with weapons in them in their off duty vehicles. At a minimum the bag needs to be completely out of sight, and ideally the weapon would be locked in a lock box or in a secure weapon rack out of sight.

Inside a patrol vehicle the officer's secondary firearm(s) should be readily accessible from the front seat, but they also need to be securely secured in a locking rack. Whether it is combination, keyed or electronic doesn't matter, just as long as it's locked.
 
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