Guns In Vehicles: Don't Do It.

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No one said you "should" be held criminally responsible for the criminal misuse of your stolen property, I said that you "could" be held civilly responsible. There's a big difference. We live in a wonderful nation where anyone can sue anyone else for anything.

I'm now retired but during my tenure, I had a high security clearance, protected two American presidents, several foreign dignitaries and a key witness with a seven-figure price tag on his head. Since retiring, I'm now covered by "common Sense" gun laws and I can no longer be trusted carrying a handgun in schools, public buildings, houses of worship in some states, and private businesses in states where those businesses may limit firearms possession. While I'm a total 2nd Amendment advocate, I must abide by the silly laws imposed on us. If I can't legally carry a gun where I'm going, I don't carry it. For me, leaving a gun in a car is not an option.
 
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federali said:
The subject of guns in vehicles comes up all the time. You may even buy holsters or gun holders intended for "car carry." I always advise people not to leave guns in vehicles for any reason. As the firearms custodian for a federal law enforcement agency, I can attest that, nationwide, we've lost many guns stolen from vehicles, including at least a half dozen Remington 870s to be used at the range on the day they were stolen. And, we were a small law enforcement agency.

This brings us to the July 1st. fatal shooting of Kate Steinle on the San Francisco Pier by an illegal alien. The gun used was stolen from the parked vehicle of a federal agent assigned to the Bureau of Land Management.

First, if that was your gun, you now have to live with the fact you have unwittingly initiated a chain of events leading to the loss of life. Then, there's a question of potential civil liability. If I'm injured or killed with a lawfully owned firearm that was stored in a negligent manner, do I, or my next-of-kin have a cause of action? I would think so.

The circumstances under which a gun may be safely left in vehicles should be limited to when you are in direct sight of your vehicle, such as through a diner window or perhaps while you attend a little league ball game. In the case in question, the vehicle was broken into. More often, the vehicle itself is stolen. So, think twice about guns in vehicles. I don't know the extent of civil responsibility but I do know that I'm morally responsible if I allow a gun to get into the wrong hands.
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I respectfully disagree with you.

NC
 
federali said:
If I can't legally carry a gun where I'm going, I don't carry it. For me, leaving a gun in a car is not an option.
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If you don't want to be in a position of having to leave a gun in the car for any reason thus leave your gun at home, fine for you. But the notion of "I always advise people not to leave guns in vehicles for any reason" could very well leave the gun owner defenseless and dead after taking your advice.
 
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Photog said:
So, not to be really sarcastic, maybe just a little, how does one move across the country if they have guns? Obviously not many can drive the many hours straight without stopping for sleep or to eat or to use the facilities. So that being said, you have your gun collection of, say, 50 guns in your vehicle while moving, do you put them all in a big bag and take them with you when you go to use the restroom or get a drink? This type of post it great fuel for anti gunners as it follows their way of thinking, that gun owners should be held criminally or at the very least, in a civil manner, as to who uses one of their guns that was acquired illegally.
So, to agree with another poster, if your car is stolen and it is used in any crime, then you are responsible. If you have medication stolen, and it is sold on the street still in the prescription bottle you had it in, then you are guilty of trafficking, if someone steals your credit card and then uses it for some huge purchase, then you should pay since you didn't keep it locked up and safe. Ridiculous? Yes! But that is the same premise you are posing, that someone takes something of yours and uses it wrongly, then you should be held responsible. Sad, really, that the word responsibility is slowly becoming obsolete. Blame it on someone else....
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Rediculous? Yes. Absolutely. Like a lot of other things that happen in our litigious society. Recognizing it's rediculous may make me feel all warm and fuzzy, but it won't stop that anti 2A judge from finding for the family of the person a gangbanger kills in a robbery with the gun he stole. It ain't right and it ain't fair, but I'm not going to get cranky with someone who makes a suggestion.
And it won't stop the defamation of the media hypocrites from their crusade against the 2A.
 
I see your point and it is valid in todays sue happy society, however there are instances where it, in my way of thinking is much better to err on the side of caution. For instance, if I go to Dallas to the VA hospital for an appointment I know I can't carry into the hospital, but I am not about to drive through car jacking Dallas, Texas without some form of handgun in the vehicle next to me. I know I will have to leave it in the vehicle while inside but I sure want it next to me coming and going. Yes, I would still be concerned about it in the truck while I was away but that's a choice I would make.
 
mike campbell said:
MY house can be broken into. A butcher knife can be stolen and used to kill someone. My car can be stolen and used to run someone over. An armed mugger could get the drop on me and disarm me.

I'm not morally responsible for the actions of criminals that I don't willingly abet.
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Nobody said you were morally responsible....just that it's not a good idea to leave guns in cars.
 
federali said:
I don't know the extent of civil responsibility but I do know that I'm morally responsible if I allow a gun to get into the wrong hands.
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This may be your line of reasoning, your philosophy, but it doesn't work for me.

The problem for me is your use of the word "allow". "...if I allow a gun to get into the wrong hands." Your use of the word suggests complicity or acquiescence...and acquiesence implies tacit approval.

I've never allowed anyone to break into my home, but it's happened. Someone could break into my car, but it wouldn't be because I allowed them to do it.

I refuse to accept responsibility, nor will I feel guilty or remorseful for events over which I have no control. I can't save the whole world.
 
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federali said:
No one said you "should" be held criminally responsible for the criminal misuse of your stolen property, I said that you "could" be held civilly responsible. There's a big difference. We live in a wonderful nation where anyone can sue anyone else for anything.
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Can you provide a link to an example where someone has actually been held liable for the criminal use by a third party of a stolen, but otherwise legally owned and kept firearm?

I'm sure the viability of such a suit would depend on the jurisdiction. Here in rural Georgia, such a suit wouldn't get very far.
 
The papers said it wasn't his duty gun, so it was privately owned. Also said the illegal scum woke up, found the gun wrapped in a cloth at his feet, he unwrapped it and it "went off 3 times". A jury won't buy that but what difference does it make?

And if anybody IS morally responsible, it is the mayor of San Francisco, for its sanctuary city policies regarding illegals. And every other mayor of every other sanctuary city should be personally sued for allowing these criminals to live in their cities with impunity. And I'm not only talking about felons. The drunk illegal with no arrest record who mows down a person is just as bad.
 
I did have a gun stolen from my car once and trust me it will leave you with a very hollow feeling and a worry of what it might be used for. Mine was used in a drive bye shooting on a house and fortunately no one was hit and the bad guy caught. I got the gun back about a year later after the trial was over and I have never left a gun in my car or truck since.
 
I share the "travel to the hospital/doc" scenario raised.

I have to travel weekly - miles through areas where getting out of your car could easily be fatal. But I can't carry in the hospital property, so it stays in the locked box in the car.

No real choice.
 
I have 3 carry's in this State. When my carry can't go in, it get's locked in a safe in my car not visible, unless you get on your head. Without a key, one would have to have tools to get it out. The smash and grabbers aren't spending that kind of time.

Sure, thieves are looking for guns and valuables. Mine aren't easy to get at whatsoever, except by me.

I live near S.F. like many of our big cities, it's been a politically corrupt and lawless since the "gold rush."
 
I tend to live by the rule that "the end doesn't always justify the means".

What if the outcome were different? Somebody grabbed a gun from a car and saved some lives, especially one or more LEO lives?

Where do you draw the line with these types of "ultimatum" statements?

+1 to what sturtyboy said. I consider what he's stated as to be wise and prudent. If someone goes to that much effort, then, oh well.

One more thing: it's a fine line of discussion, especially with ultimatum statements and such a narrow definition, between carefully thought out plans, discretion, prudence and one's own level of conscientious comfort. What if it weren't "guns" being discussed? What else can be taken from a car (as stated previously) that could be used in a harmful way?
 
The last time I carried my guns across country, I built a big coffin looking box.
I loaded it with all my long guns and most of my handguns into the shell on my pickup.
I nailed the top onto the box.
I carried my loaded shooters on me and in a briefcase size hard case.
I stayed in a motel in West Texas. I backed my truck up to a post in front of my ground level motel room.
Slept like a baby! A baby grizzly bear ready to defend its territory.
 
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