Guns In Vehicles: Don't Do It.

[Muss Muggins]

Can you provide a link to an example where someone has actually been held liable for the criminal use by a third party of a stolen, but otherwise legally owned and kept firearm?

Not being a smartass, but I would seriously like an answer to this question.

Here's the answer: No, that poster cannot provide a link . . . (and neither can anyone else)

 

[lowriderfxr]

I can only imagine the moral responsibility of gun manufacturers and gun shop owners when criminals steal guns and commit crimes. It must keep them up at night.

By the way, there is a 6946 in my truck, all day, every day.

 

[loknload]

I never leave my CCW in my car unless I have to go into a building that does not allow it by law! If I leave it behind it is unloaded and locked in the glove box that is all and the car is locked. I very very seldomly do this and if my car is broken into well stuff happens and I'm not going to be happy!

 

[NCavi8tor]

Here's the answer: No, that poster cannot provide a link . . . (and neither can anyone else)

Its right next to the link where someone was prosecuted for improving the trigger pull on their CCW! [emoji6]

NC

 

[FAS1]

You haven't seen my setup. The only way someone is going to get my gun is with a torch.

Post a pic Kanewpadle. I would love to see your setup sometime.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

You haven't seen my setup. The only way someone is going to get my gun is with a torch.

Since you're in the security business I reckon we won't see anyone running around with a stolen gun from Bob.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Post a pic Kanewpadle. I would love to see your setup sometime.

Okay.

Please keep in mind that this is a work van. I never leave my gun in my personal vehicle. Off duty, I don't go places where it is illegal to carry. If I absolutely have to (court house etc...) I leave the gun at home. When I'm done I come straight home.

Here's the box. Made by Palmer Security. No longer made unfortunately. One of the stronger boxes made. As you can see, you could pry on the bottom and near side. A there are plenty of tools in the van to use. But you have to get in first.

The above is the side door.
Below is the rear door.

These are specialized locks and brackets designed for cargo vans. But of course it does no good if you don't have a bulkhead that divides the passenger and cargo areas as pictured below.

Kind of hard to tell but the bulkhead is there somewhere.

The padlocks are solid steel and the brackets are stainless. They bolt on using the existing holes for the latches.

Nothings foolproof. But someone will have to work long and hard to get my gun. That's if I don't get to them first.

 

[FAS1]

Nice! Thanks.

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

The subject of guns in vehicles comes up all the time. You may even buy holsters or gun holders intended for "car carry." I always advise people not to leave guns in vehicles for any reason. As the firearms custodian for a federal law enforcement agency, I can attest that, nationwide, we've lost many guns stolen from vehicles, including at least a half dozen Remington 870s to be used at the range on the day they were stolen. And, we were a small law enforcement agency.

This brings us to the July 1st. fatal shooting of Kate Steinle on the San Francisco Pier by an illegal alien. The gun used was stolen from the parked vehicle of a federal agent assigned to the Bureau of Land Management.

First, if that was your gun, you now have to live with the fact you have unwittingly initiated a chain of events leading to the loss of life. Then, there's a question of potential civil liability. If I'm injured or killed with a lawfully owned firearm that was stored in a negligent manner, do I, or my next-of-kin have a cause of action? I would think so.

The circumstances under which a gun may be safely left in vehicles should be limited to when you are in direct sight of your vehicle, such as through a diner window or perhaps while you attend a little league ball game. In the case in question, the vehicle was broken into. More often, the vehicle itself is stolen. So, think twice about guns in vehicles. I don't know the extent of civil responsibility but I do know that I'm morally responsible if I allow a gun to get into the wrong hands.

The most ridiculous post I have ever read, ever. Read on. Pure BS.

Cheers;
Lefty

 

[TexasArmed]

There ought to be a private mail storage place for those like me. I have to disarm to go inside the post office to pick up mail. No they won't deliver
to where i live. I would be upset if in the five minutes I go inside to
pick up that mail my handgun got stolen out of my locked vehicle, but i
would not feel guilty about it. I don't make the laws in this country, i
just try to obey them and still protect myself. At least now I can buy
stamps without going to the post office. I even get people send me bills
for someone else which I open before I notice it is not my name and then
they think i ought to waste my time and gas to return it right away.
I had to explain to one exasparated clerk that I don't work for the
post office, and I don't go there except when I have to go, because
I have to disarm. So no i accept no responsibility if my gun gets
stolen while I am inside, and i resent the post office requiring me
to disarm. I would blame them.

 

[Hapworth]

The most ridiculous post I have ever read, ever. Read on. Pure BS.

Cheers;
Lefty

It's a reasonable post. Disagreeing with it is one thing, but if your hyperbolic assessment is sincere, this must be the first thing you have ever read online...ever.

Instead of name calling, how about a reasoned counterargument?

 

[M29since14]

I don't see that he called anyone names. He said the post was ridiculous. It probably seems that way to a lot of us - maybe Collects just stated that same view a bit more diplomatically... ?

 

[Hapworth]

I don't see that he called anyone names. He said the post was ridiculous. It probably seems that way to a lot of us - maybe Collects just stated that same view a bit more diplomatically... ?

He name-called the perspective given by a fellow member -- same thing. And the point is it was left that way without any reasoning to back it up.

Whereas I disagree with how narrowly federali defines the circumstances under which firearms should be left in a car, his point-of-view is reasonable and articulated. His noting the likelihood of (at minimum) civil liability if negligent storage results in theft that in turn leads to a crime involving the stolen firearm is plausible, as is the moral responsibility in such a situation.

Counterpoints work a lot better than calling BS without saying why...

 

[Gamecock]

Whereas I disagree with how narrowly federali defines the circumstances under which firearms should be left in a car, his point-of-view is reasonable and articulated.

No. His advice seems reasonable for LEOs, but is useless for others. He has tunnel vision; he is projecting his environment on everyone else.

 

[caleb4387]

I'll leave my gun where I Damn well please Mr government

 

[austinjeane]

If I were the former "custodian" of firearms for a small federal law enforcement agency and couldn't secure firearms efficiently, I would not presume to tell others how to do so.

 

[jdh]

Let me get this straight. I live 35 miles from the nearest VA clinic. VA clinics are victim disarmament zones. To be more efficient and a better steward of the planet I combine as many errands into the one trip to the city, one which has a relatively high crime rate. Now, since the parking lot at the VA down not have sight lines from the building I cannot keep a visual on my car,which is alarmed BTW. So to comply with the standards set forth in th op I must travel to a high crime area without means of protection because I cannot maintain a visual on the vehicle and VA appointments are seldom over in a short period of time meaning I must leave the firearm at home instead of securing it in the vehicle.

LE leave firearms in vehicles every day. I guess once again it is a do as I say not as I do situation.

 

[daddy bear]

I refuse to believe that I am responsible for thieves. I understand what you are saying, and if I am blatantly careless, I might be culpable.

I once sold a handgun to a used car dealer. Said guy went to El Paso and likely on to Juarez, where in contrast to the song, he did have too much fun. Broke, he hocked the pistol for money to get home. A criminal bought the pistol and killed a guy. BATF came to see me as the original owner. Am I responsible for the crime? Absolutely not. Neither was the car dealer, neither was the pawn shop. The criminal alone was the killer.

Jack

 

[Hapworth]

No. His advice seems reasonable for LEOs, but is useless for others. He has tunnel vision; he is projecting his environment on everyone else.

No he isn't. There are states that have passed laws placing criminal liability on gun owners who fail to secure firearms that are then stolen and used criminally:

California Passes AB-231 Criminal Storage Act - The Truth About Guns

And civil liability has also been found in similar incidents:

Homeowners Must Lock Up Guns, Massachusetts Court Rules

federali's concern appears justified...

 

[wbraswell]

That's justice for you. Well, we can't find the shooter, but we can throw the book at the guy who had his gun stolen. It's a good bust, as long as we arrest somebody.