Guns In Vehicles: Don't Do It.

[Kframerbluvr]

You are exactly right - breaking a window, grabbing whatever is handy and then departing the AO is exactly how the average thief works.

This is exactly why, if I have to leave my concealed carry firearm in the car, I leave it in a lock box that is either bolted under the passenger seat (my car) or cabled to the seat frame and placed out of sight under the passenger seat (spouse's car, rental car, etc).

One thing to consider however is that a break in usually starts with targeting a vehicle that has something of value visible in it. Whether it's a cell phone, purse, wallet, GPS, cash, credit card, etc, it's usually the sight of something of value in the car that prompts the person to target that vehicle. Sometimes it's secondary evidence of something valuable, like the faint ring left on the windshield by the suction cup of a GPS - that might be enough to prompt the thief to break the window to check in the center console or glove box.

If the inside of your car looks as clean inside as the a rental car you just picked up from Hertz, there's not much reason for a break in - a potential thief will pick a car with a more obvious return for his investment. If you have valuables in the car, make sure they are out of sight, along with any lock boxes, cables, etc.

Where you park matters. A locked garage adds another level of protection, a well lit parking space or a parking garage with video monitoring are also deterrents. Parking in a dark location in a bad neighborhood when you can't continuously observe your car is a really bad idea.

In the event someone does break in, they are not going to spend a great deal of time trying to remove hard to find and hard to remove items, so step two is to ensure any valuables in the car are also secured inside the car. A lock box bolted to the floor under a seat or secured with a heavy cable takes time to remove that the thief probably doesn't have or doesn't want to take.

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The point here is that yes, people should take some basic common sense measures to prevent guns from finding their way into the hands of criminals and prohibited individuals - but there is also a reasonableness standard that applies.

Expecting people to leave their concealed carry or self defense firearms at home just because they might get stolen from a car, is counter productive, as a gun left locked in your gun safe at home is worth absolutely nothing in a self defense situation when you are some where else. You'll never need a self defense handgun, until you need it real bad, and then, much like a parachute, if you don't have it when you need it, you'll likely never need anything ever again.

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As for law enforcement officers and keeping firearms in cars, the same common sense and reasonableness standards apply, plus a couple additional measures.

Police officers often carry weapons off duty in their cars. Unfortunately, those cars are often unmarked police cars - that look like unmarked police cars. It's also lost as bad when they have police association stickers, special license plates, portable emergency vehicle lights, etc, that scream "off duty police officer's car - weapon inside". You need to avoid that.

Police officers also often carry go bags with weapons in them in their off duty vehicles. At a minimum the bag needs to be completely out of sight, and ideally the weapon would be locked in a lock box or in a secure weapon rack out of sight.

Inside a patrol vehicle the officer's secondary firearm(s) should be readily accessible from the front seat, but they also need to be securely secured in a locking rack. Whether it is combination, keyed or electronic doesn't matter, just as long as it's locked.

Well said, Sir.

 

[AlHunt]

I take guns into the PO all the time, no problems.

I hope it stays that way for you. I know Postmasters who won't even park their car in the lot if there's a firearm on board (as in, hunting season).

 

[AlHunt]

With all due respect to the OP, a person who has their car broken into is also the victim of a crime, just as a home being broken into.

But, just as a precaution, we should all start carrying all our firearms on our person, at all times. I'm going to need a bigger holster ...

 

[ltgem612]

As a retired LEO I see this slightly different from most. We are mostly civilians here on this forum, this federal agent is not a civilian. As a sworn law enforcement officer his department probably has written standards as to how a firearm can be carried and/or stored when off duty. Cops are held to a higher standard by agency policy, that's just the way it is. I wrote(over 20 years ago) our policy and you never left a firearm, issued or otherwise, unsecured. If our officers elected to take their firearms home they had to have them secured at all times until they got home. In almost all cases that meant on their person, not in a trunk or somewhere else in the vehicle. I don't know what policy the Bureau of Land Management has, but as a federal agency I bet they have one and it is pretty all inclusive. Again this wasn't a civilian who had his firearm stolen.

 

[AlHunt]

As a retired LEO I see this slightly different from most. We are mostly civilians here on this forum, this federal agent is not a civilian. ... Cops are held to a higher standard by agency policy, that's just the way it is. ... Again this wasn't a civilian who had his firearm stolen.

Important difference and thanks for pointing it out.

 

[sigp220.45]

This thread prompted me to buy a Nano 100 for my wife's Glock 19 yesterday. When we lived in small town NM I didn't really worry about it, but she works in Denver now so I thought I'd better lock it up.

Its not 100 secure, but I figure it will discourage most thieves.

Plus, she drives a Prius. NOBODY looks for a gun in a Prius.

 

[ScottS]

As a retired LEO I see this slightly different from most. We are mostly civilians here on this forum, this federal agent is not a civilian. As a sworn law enforcement officer his department probably has written standards as to how a firearm can be carried and/or stored when off duty. Cops are held to a higher standard by agency policy, that's just the way it is. I wrote(over 20 years ago) our policy and you never left a firearm, issued or otherwise, unsecured. If our officers elected to take their firearms home they had to have them secured at all times until they got home. In almost all cases that meant on their person, not in a trunk or somewhere else in the vehicle. I don't know what policy the Bureau of Land Management has, but as a federal agency I bet they have one and it is pretty all inclusive. Again this wasn't a civilian who had his firearm stolen.

Unless he was in the military, and nothing in the article led us to believe he was, he was indeed a civilian. He might have also been an LEO, but he was most certainly a civilian.

But I digress....

What I wanted to say was, I'm always bemused by threads that, instead of saying "this is what I do or don't do," say "this is what you should/must do or not do." It reflects an interesting attitude on the part of the thread starter.

Think how much more reasoned the former thread would be, and probably much shorter...

 

[okiegtrider]

Plus, she drives a Prius. NOBODY looks for a gun in a Prius.

Thats a good one!

 

[Whitwabit]

The pistol that was stolen was not his official weapon! It appears it was his own personnel pistol.

Has any one heard how it was stored in the vehicle and where the vehicle was when broken into ??

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

I seldom leave a gun in my car, but when I do I simply remove all ammunition. It's the KISS principle......

 

[KSDeputy]

I would like to know why the Bureau of Land Management, and many more federal agencies, need to have armed agents? Do you know how many federal agencies have their own police forces? I do not know the exact number, but it is high. This may not affect the car theft, but then again it might. If there is not a legitimate need for all those armed agents, then perhaps one may not have left a gun in their car. The only time I leave a pistol in my vehicle is when I go somewhere I am not allowed to carry it. In my state that is very few places. Retired peace officers with a LEOSA permit are allowed to carry anywhere an active working peace officer can carry. So that pretty much leaves only jails, prisons, mental hospitals, federal buildings and post offices. I wish it was that way everywhere. Citizens allow us to carry a deadly weapon because they trust us to have the self control, intelligence, and common sense to know when, where and under what circumstances to use it.

 

[keith44spl]

Well,
I guess y'all don't have gun racks in yur pick-up trucks in New York City....

If a thief steals my truck and with or without a firearm in it...

And the thief runs some innocent person down with the stolen vehicle,

am I legally and morally responsible for the thief's actions, I ask ya????


I Think Not.



.

 

[redlevel]

Can you provide a link to an example where someone has actually been held liable for the criminal use by a third party of a stolen, but otherwise legally owned and kept firearm?
QUOTE]


Not being a smartass, but I would seriously like an answer to this question.

 

[samnev]

When i moved from the East coast to Arizona (2600 miles) in June of 1995 All my household goods including a 300 gun collection were packed in a 26 foot bed Ryder truck boxed Guns were put in first. We took enough food for the journey and ate in the truck or rest stops with the truck nearby. At night we slept in a campground in a tent at the end of the truck with 2 high cap 9mm's just in case. Drove 17 and 18 hours the first 2 days and 8 hours the last day. Everything arrived without incident. Don't think i'd want to ever do it again.

 

[Faulkner]

I have nothing constructive to add to this thread.

 

[FAS1]

I choose number 1. No other choice, really.

I agree, but with the additional choice to have some added security from theft. Most of the 18GA clamshell lock boxes with the tiny cable they come with really provide very little extra time needed to access your weapon by a smash and grab thief. $30 can't buy much.

There are some stronger alternatives that will slow them down at least a little more and maybe frustrate them enough to move on to the next vehicle.

 

[sgtsandman]

I agree. I don't store firearms in a vehicle if I can help it and if I can't it gets locked up in a gun vault and placed out of sight. Nothing is fool proof outside of not storing a gun in a vehicle. One could just decide to break into a vehicle if it looks nice enough or is the right brand and find it during the search of other things.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I agree. I don't store firearms in a vehicle if I can help it and if I can't it gets locked up in a gun vault and placed out of sight. Nothing is fool proof outside of not storing a gun in a vehicle. One could just decide to break into a vehicle if it looks nice enough or is the right brand and find it during the search of other things.

You haven't seen my setup. The only way someone is going to get my gun is with a torch.

 

[sgtsandman]

You haven't seen my setup. The only way someone is going to get my gun is with a torch.

Some of those console vaults are pretty impressive both in security and what you can put in them.

 

[BIGDOC]

Just use common sense.... if you carry in your vehicle and not on your person and get out and leave your weapon in said vehicle, i.e in the armrest or in the door, you are asking for trouble. Keep a lock box (bolted or cabled) to secure your weapon or carry it. Here in sunny Florida there have been many instances where a LEO left his vehicle unlocked with weapons and equipment were stolen, this is just stupidity. And you should limit who you tell and show....it's common sense which seems to be un-common nowadays.