Pre-Victory and Victory Model Timeline

[Absalom]

I found another S&W and couldn't pass it up, it's a 1905 4th modification at a pawn shop in really good condition, I put money down on it and he's holding it for me. I looked it over and checked out the bore, looks really clean. The serial number is 982xxx, was curious when this was made, any other info would be appreciated. I'll post images when I get it in my possession. Thanks

If it does not have any letter prefix, it would be a late pre-Victory, probably from late spring (April/May?) 1942. Does it have a lanyard swivel? And is the finish blue and the stocks checkered or does it have a Victory-type finish and smooth stocks? And is it marked .38 S&W or .38 S&W Special? And what's the barrel length?

 

[Josefius]

If it does not have any letter prefix, it would be a late pre-Victory, probably from late spring (April/May?) 1942. Does it have a lanyard swivel? And is the finish blue and the stocks checkered or does it have a Victory-type finish and smooth stocks? And is it marked .38 S&W or .38 S&W Special? And what's the barrel length?

From what I saw it had checkered grips and was a very dark blue. I'm pretty sure it was .38 Special, but I'll clarify that tomorrow.

 

[DWalt]

That SN would almost certainly put the shipping date as being in late May 1942. At that time, the original finish would most likely have been blued (changeover to phosphate finish started in May 42) but not necessarily, but the original grips would almost certainly have been smooth wood as that changeover started in very early 1942. The .38 Specials would have 4" barrels, and there should be a lanyard loop. Some Navy contract pre-Victories (stamped U. S. NAVY on the topstrap) exist in that SN neighborhood, and if this is one of them, that would increase its value somewhat. This is a situation that calls for a little more in-depth research on exactly what is being sold before any money changes hands. It always helps in striking a better bargain if the buyer knows more than the seller.

 

[Josefius]

That SN would almost certainly put the shipping date as being in late May 1942. At that time, the original finish would most likely have been blued (changeover to phosphate finish started in May 42) but not necessarily, but the original grips would almost certainly have been smooth wood as that changeover started in very early 1942. The .38 Specials would have 4" barrels, and there should be a lanyard loop. Some Navy contract pre-Victories (stamped U. S. NAVY on the topstrap) exist in that SN neighborhood, and if this is one of them, that would increase its value somewhat. This is a situation that calls for a little more in-depth research on exactly what is being sold before any money changes hands. It always helps in striking a better bargain if the buyer knows more than the seller.

I went up to drop some cash on it, it has a lanyard loop hole on the bottom, the lanyard loop is missing. I suppose I could find a replacement. It's definitely in .38 Special, I didn't look for the U.S. Navy stamp on the frame since I didn't see this until a bit ago. He did say the grips may have been replaced. Here's a picture:

 

[DWalt]

It's not too difficult to find replacement lanyard swivels and grips. They show up often on eBay, and the gun parts houses may have them. I have a strong suspicion that yours may well have been re-blued. The margin around the side plate is too prominent, often a sign of an inexpert reblue job.

 

[Absalom]

I went up to drop some cash on it, it has a lanyard loop hole on the bottom, the lanyard loop is missing. I suppose I could find a replacement. It's definitely in .38 Special, I didn't look for the U.S. Navy stamp on the frame since I didn't see this until a bit ago. He did say the grips may have been replaced. Here's a picture:

The grips look like aftermarket (unless the lighting is really playing a trick on my eyes), and the finish looks very much like a re-bluing job; all the edges are quite washed-out. But this does look to have been a standard 4-inch .38 Special pre-Victory with butt swivel.

 

[Josefius]

The grips look like aftermarket (unless the lighting is really playing a trick on my eyes), and the finish looks very much like a re-bluing job; all the edges are quite washed-out. But this does look to have been a standard 4-inch .38 Special pre-Victory with butt swivel.

The lighting is bright, it doesn't look like that in person. I'll try to get better pictures soon. The logo on the grip is silver and the hole on the butt of the grip looks like the lanyard loop was removed, not plugged or broken off.

 

[DWalt]

Regarding those grips, you might want to look at this: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/400929-white-ivory-like-molded-grips.html

 

[Josefius]

Regarding those grips, you might want to look at this: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/400929-white-ivory-like-molded-grips.html

The grips on the pistol are wood, the lighting washes everything out :/ They are a light brown actually.

 

[DWalt]

I wouldn't have believed it. I've not seen factory wood grips that light in color. In that case, they are Magnas from the mid-1950s or later. Or some copy thereof.

 

[Absalom]

I wouldn't have believed it. I've not seen factory wood grips that light in color. In that case, they are Magnas from the mid-1950s or later. Or some copy thereof.

I'd still suspect the "copy thereof". That diamond looks awfully large and a bit awkwardly shaped and seems to have a differently-shaded trim around it.

Since you're getting the gun, it's probably best we wait until you can post a photo or two taken in natural light. That'll preclude any optical color or light distortions.

 

[bromhead79]

...excellent research data, thanks.
I 'adopted' S&W V707507 (.38 SPECIAL caliber, 4" bbl, military 'dry satin black" finish, rolled 'FLAMING BOMB' U.S.PROPERTY G.H.D. stamped, 'P' proof on top left near cylinder, and smooth grips) at the TULSA GUN SHOW yesterday. Two questions:
1. General month and year of manufacture?
2. Should the smooth wooden grips have 'V707507' stamped on both inner sides should I remove them? All else 'matches'.
Thank you in advance for your expertise and generous 'knowledge sharing'.
This a fantastic forum...
Ron Woods

 

[Absalom]

That should place the gun in the second half of 1944; DWalt will have a closer date.

Generally, the serial number is only stamped on the inside of the right grip panel.

 

[bromhead79]

thanks...!
RON

 

[PJGP]

There is a major error in post #1 regarding South African orders. I see that this was posted over two years ago; there are a number of more recent threads that address this matter. The first SA order was for 8800 guns and, immediately post Dunkirk, SA allowed the first 4000 odd to be delivered to Britain. Production for SA then started afresh. The quantity given in post #1 is the total ordered and delivered direct to SA from S&W before the establishment of the London Munitions Assignment Board with the coming of Lend Lease. The first 13847 had 4" barrels and the rest 5".

Peter

 

[DWalt]

1. General month and year of manufacture? Likely shipped in 10/44
2. Should the smooth wooden grips have 'V707507' stamped on both inner sides should I remove them? Grips should be smooth wood, with SN stamped on back side of right panel.

 

[bromhead79]

...thanks, DWalt.
The grips are very good and the edges fit flush on all edges, however, do not match the pistol SER #. All pistol numbers are correct/ matching.
I am still very proud of my 'adoption'...!
RON

 

[LME]

Serial Number Question

Does anyone know the significance of the letter "P" used as a suffix to a "V" prefix serial number of 6 numerals (between the V and the P)?

thank you in advance.

 

[Absalom]

Does anyone know the significance of the letter "P" used as a suffix to a "V" prefix serial number of 6 numerals (between the V and the P)?
.

Does this P appear in only one or multiple locations? It was not a suffix that I'm aware of. But the P was used as a military proof mark, usually on the side as pictured below. According to Pate, a solitary P just on the butt was used for guns shipped on a "Navy contract administered by the Army". I'm fairly certain that's what you have.

 

[LME]

Victory model with P suffix at the end of the V+# serial number

Thank you for the reply.

The S&W that we have has a letter "V" followed by a space, followed by a 6 digit serial number, followed by a space, followed by the letter "P". We assumed, and yes, I know what that means, that the string of characters taken in total constituted the serial number. See photo.

The cylinder is stamped with the letter "P", then the letter "V" and then the 6 numbers of the serial number, as shown in the second photo.

What do you think?

Appreciate the help.

Merry Christmas!

Mike