Rethinking some carry decisions

[Arik]

OP, if I was worried about large animal attacks I'd carry enough gun and enough ammo. That's really the only specific answer I can give. I'm not a big fan of 380 and 38spl to begin with but if something like a 100 lbs angry dog is a concern I would carry something in 357 for revolver or 40/45/357sig. ....maybe 10mm.

 

[SC_Mike]

I will not be bit.

 

[dwever]

The only problem with that article is they don't actually know what a "Pit bull" is. The study goes off of what people say and lots of people assume it was a Pitt bull. Most people know the general look but that's like saying you saw a black semi auto handgun there for its a Glock.

I've posted pictures of it before but look up Dogo Argentino. Despite having a completely different (stereotypical) personality from a Pitt bull and being related to a Great Dane it still LOOKS like a Pitt bull.

I could be biased because of my close call with an attack, but here's the thing. If the numbers were even somewhat close I would be willing to look at the well-worn breed misidentification factor prosecuted by defenders of the pit bull breed notably for decades, that was their big argument in the early 80's CDC study pointing it's statistical finger squarely at pit bulls for dog-caused human deaths.

But at some point when your attack and human death numbers are so astronomically high that they are when compared to other large more popular breeds in the multiplied thousandths of percentile higher, you've gotta stop the rhetoric and say, this breed is uniquely wired and needs and deserves unique management and control. Aggressive PR against the conclusions of municipality after municipality, State after State, and study after study does nothing to prevent the next attack.

Strayed a bit off topic, so that's my last post here. Peace.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Wasn't an original requirement for first the .45 Colt and then the .45 ACP that it be able to kill horses? A horse is bigger than a dog...

I personally knew two guys in the 90s who were set upon by dog packs, but in the woods. I have no opinion on pit bulls. I did not observe it as a problem where I was. However if you leave pit bull debates aside, the danger of feral dogs is real in many places.

A .45 auto may be the largest caliber that many people can shoot accurately and quickly.

 

[Arik]

I could be biased because of my close call with an attack, but here's the thing. If the numbers were even somewhat close I would be willing to look at the well-worn breed misidentification factor prosecuted by defenders of the pit bull breed notably for decades, that was their big argument in the early 80's CDC study pointing it's finger squarely at pit bull terriers for dog-caused human deaths.

But at some point when your attack and human death numbers are so astronomically high that they are when compared to other large more popular breeds in the multiplied thousandths of percentile higher, you've gotta stop the rhetoric and say, this breed is uniquely wired and needs and deserves unique management and control. Aggressive PR against study after study does nothing to prevent the next attack.

Strayed a bit off topic, so that's my last post here. Peace.

Weren't the most deadly and dangerous breeds of the 70s and 80s Dobermans? Back then they were just pure evil. They instantly kill any person they see. What happened?

 

[KSDeputy]

I agree more with the concept of violent or vicious dog, rather than naming a specific breed. I have good friends that own pit bulls that are friendly and loving dogs. It is not the fault of the breed, rather it is the fault of the owner and how they train dogs. Most criminals have dogs that they have trained to be vicious, doesn't matter what the breed is. I had one turned loose on me once after serving the owner with a court paper. He was angry that I had ignored his no trespassing and bad dog signs, gotten to his door and served him. As I was leaving he turned the dog out and said "get him". I drew down on the dog with my standard issue .45, told the owner I would kill the dog and arrest him for aggravated battery on an LEO. He called the dog back. Any breed can and is trained to be vicious.

 

[dwever]

Weren't the most deadly and dangerous breeds of the 70s and 80s Dobermans? Back then they were just pure evil. They instantly kill any person they see. What happened?

Okay I said last post but I'll answer that.

The CDC did have a 19 year study involving both of those decades, but only involving one seventies year ('79) and they concluded that pit bulls were far and away the breed most responsible for dog attacks resulting in human deaths. There are are entire websites by pit bull 'enthusiasts' dedicated to debunking that study or debunking the pit bull's reputation like badrap.org.

 

[Mainsail]

This got me to thinking about how I would fare ...with either of my current edc's - a Model 60 and/or Bodyguard 380.

Dogs or specific breeds are irrelevant. Most of us carry a sidearm for defense against anything that we (reasonably) believe could cause death or great bodily harm to ourselves or another.

I prefer to prioritize a gun's ability to be concealed much lower in the list than say, its effectivity or capacity. To conceal means only to obscure from view, it does not mean it must be completely invisible from any angle and with any bodily contortion. For me, I'll carry what works and let others worry about what may be noticeable. I don't have to answer questions from other citizens or the police for any lawful activity, and poorly concealing a handgun is a lawful activity, at least here in WA.

Carry more; worry less.

 

[Arik]

.

Go watch another episode of Magnum P.I., "Zeuss, Apollo, get over here."

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[Kid44]

The only problem with that article is they don't actually know what a "Pit bull" is. The study goes off of what people say and lots of people assume it was a Pitt bull. Most people know the general look but that's like saying you saw a black semi auto handgun there for its a Glock.

I've posted pictures of it before but look up Dogo Argentino. Despite having a completely different (stereotypical) personality from a Pitt bull and being related to a Great Dane it still LOOKS like a Pitt bull.

There for is spelled therefore and "Pitt bull" has only 1 t in it.

 

[Arik]

There for is spelled therefore and "Pitt bull" has only 1 t in it.

Auto correct doesn't always work they way you intend to write

 

[686-380]

Any dog can "turn" vicious

I can't state with any authority on whether pit bulls are the most dangerous of the domesticated canines. Any dog can suddenly turn vicious, for numerous reasons. That said, here's a very recent article from my local paper:

Spirited Logan girl inspires others after tragic pit bull attack | Logan Hj | news.hjnews.com

As a camp host, during the Summer, I find it's just easiest to carry my Bodyguard .380. I have a hollow point (Hornady XTP or Golden Sabre) as my first round. I follow it up with Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defense and Xtreme Penetrator rounds. I constantly have to rebuke some guests to leash their dogs. So far, I haven't had any dire incidents but it's only a matter of time...

 

[Jhamblen86]

My girlfriend's two (2) pitbulls attack me all the time. Last weekend I sat down on her couch and these two (2) monsters jumped up on my lap and tried to lick me to death. My face was sticky until I wiped it off with a wet paper towel. I saw my life flash before my eyes.

My two pit bulls do the exact same thing!!!!

It's not the breed, it's the owners. Let me explain. I rescued a bait dog, dog that was used for training other fighters. Within 6 months I could trust him 100%. Dogs take on the attitude and life of its owner. Just like it's not the guns fault, it's the person behind the trigger.

 

[AlHunt]

I could be biased because of my close call with an attack, but here's the thing.

As with anything else in the world, a person can find articles, studies and statistics to support whatever view they wish to hold.

I would think that in a group dedicated to firearms, which are demonized for the actions of their owners, there'd be less breed-bias.

I suggest you seek out "American Pitbull Terrier" or "American Staffordshire Terrier" dogs and learn for yourself that these dogs are no different than any other dog on the face of the planet. "Pitbull" is a meaningless generic term applied to dogs that look a certain way by people who don't know any better.

 

[dougb1946]

I used to worry about pits, but then my Springer Spaniel tipped one over at the dog park and held it down. Pit waved his feet in the air wanting to play.
Be afraid of the feral dog pack. In a group frenzy, the best pet in the world can start chewing flesh.
Pits are strong, and were bred to fight-other dogs, not people. Think about it. You have a dog you fight and you have to handle it, be nice to not get chewed up, so breed for not attacking people.

My personal breed to fear is the St Bernard. 110 lb girl holding the collar of an angry 150 lb dog, telling me he doesn't bite and I am looking at the open jaws trying to get me.

Aggressive PR against the conclusions of municipality after municipality, State after State, and study after study does nothing to prevent the next attack.

Would these be the same people looking to take your guns, based on report after report?

 

[bigwheelzip]

With 250,000 attack Pitbulls, you should also rethink the family SUV.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nug5FZgxuk[/ame]

 

[Protected One]

Jimmy's experience with pit bulls (old story told before)
On duty outside my patrol unit was attacked by three (3) pit bulls.
Protection: Sig-Sauer P-229 .40 loaded with Speer 180 grain JHP.
Double taps to chest area with no effect except sound of gunfire turned the pit bulls.
Lesson learn: 12 gauge with slugs.

That's the scary thought: What if the sound of gunfire doesn't deter them? The rounds were obviously not IMMEDIATE threat stoppers. A lot of damage could be done (to me) before they could be put down by rounds of fire.

 

[Protected One]

Weren't the most deadly and dangerous breeds of the 70s and 80s Dobermans? Back then they were just pure evil. They instantly kill any person they see. What happened?

German Sheapards were the most popular breed when I was a child, followed by dobermans. People don't have dobermans anymore. Though we had neighbors with both I can't remember a single incident of someones dog escaping the yard or being allowed to "run free" in the streets, as is common today. People were more responsible back then.

 

[cmort666]

This got me to thinking about how I would fare against even ONE pit bull with either of my current edc's - a Model 60 and/or Bodyguard 380. And if there were MORE than one...well. Most likelly there would be no time for reloading before I was bitten or mauled. I'm giving serious thought to resuming carry of my glock 23 and a spare mag.

Lately, I've become more concerned about two legged animals.

That caused me to supplement (and eventually replace) my Smith 36-"no dash" with a Citadel 3.5 CS 3.5" M1911.

These days, eight rounds of 200gr. .45acp Speer Gold Dot or Hornady XTP seems like a better idea than five rounds of 158gr. .38 Special +P

 

[PALADIN85020]

As the owner of a Pit Bull mix, I'd have to say that any Pit Bull attack is more the fault of the owner rather than the dog. Raised with love and affection, a Pit Bull will return it with all his heart. There is no more loyal and affectionate breed extant. They were originally bred to protect children, and served in that capacity very well.

Left to be street dogs, or trained for fighting, they can be formidable.

Here in Phoenix, we have a leash law - dogs that run free will get their owners a heavy fine.

This is a picture of our dog Joe, who could not be any sweeter to us, family and friends. If you are introduced to him by us, he will be your friend for life, as he does not forget. By the same token, he's an excellent alarm dog, and I'm certain if we were threatened by a human, he'd go to bat for us.

The secret to a well-behaved Pit Bull is how the owner treats him. Just because a dog is a "pitty" doesn't make him bad. There are bad humans, too - and THAT's why I carry.

John