Question on the Third Gen magazine disconnect

[Jeffytune]

what is the difference if his 3rd gen S&W can fire without a mag or his Glock (or other handgun) can fire without a mag?
Point is, they both fire without a mag!

Lawyer live to make mountains out of molehills Jim. If there was a shooting, it could be made into an issue by the scumbags lawyer, but your right, there is no difference at all,, except one came from the factory with it, and the other did not.

 

[Muss Muggins]

In the final analysis you are free do do what you want. It's your gun.

Caution, soap box/rant:

To me, some things are just inherently dangerous and carry with them risks that go beyond what is acceptable. Some people have the "it would never happen to me" attitude when assessing risk, and consequently, don't see a problem with modifying an firearms action so that the trigger pull is below factory recommendations, or removing a factory installed integrated safety mechainism, like the hammer block or magazine safety. These are the same people who leave their keys in the ignition of their cars, and a an unsecured, loaded firearm in the glove box.

The voluntary action of modifying or removing any safety feature of a gun installed by the manufacturer is dangerous and irresponsible and carrys with it substancial risk both for the gun owner, family members and bystanders. This action also greatly increases the already sizeable burden of the gun owner's liability, both civil and criminal.....and such action is, I believe, indefensible in court.

I agree with armorer951. Suppose I started a thread with "I am a Smith & Wesson factory trained armorer and I usually do the work on my own automobiles. I don't like the (pick your own vehicle safety feature) and I want to know the best way to remove it . . .

 

[grcoffman104]

A good attorney would counter
S&w marketed and sold the same handgun both with and without the mag disconect.
My client updated his firearm IN THE SAME MANOR to meet the specs of one of those as he could not locate one localy.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

[Jeffytune]

Thank you'all for your replies in this thread, Armor951 posted a link that I did read through, then after reading it I called a friend in my HOG club who is a defense lawyer and asked him what he thought, his answer was short a firm, NO.

So, on the advice of a defense lawyer in my state I am going to leave them be.....I guess the real answer here is, check with your lawyer first.

 

[Jim L]

If you want a gun with/without a magazine disconnect, buy a gun with/without a magazine disconnect . . .

So he would get sued with a S&W with out a mag disconnect, but not a Glock or 1911 with out a mag disconnect in the event of a tragedy?
If that is the case than anyone with a trigger job or Apex trigger kit should also get slapped with a law suite
Also changing to a heavier or lighter recoil spring changes the dynamics of the guns function.
Also if safety is a concern than there should NEVER be a double action only handgun with out a thumb safety

 

[Muss Muggins]

I never said anything of the sort. The issue is making a pistol into something it wasn't originally designed to do. Smoothing a trigger is completely different than changing a safety feature, especially when there are identical pistols available with your desired feature. I cringe when people take a dremel tool to hammer spurs or trigger serrations, and I laugh at the people who can't figure out a slide stop lever or a safety. Use the tool the way it was intended, and if you want to perform a different job, buy a different tool . . .

So he would get sued with a S&W with out a mag disconnect, but not a Glock or 1911 with out a mag disconnect in the event of a tragedy?
If that is the case than anyone with a trigger job or Apex trigger kit should also get slapped with a law suite
Also changing to a heavier or lighter recoil spring changes the dynamics of the guns function.
Also if safety is a concern than there should NEVER be a double action only handgun with out a thumb safety

 

[scoobysnacker]

So he would get sued with a S&W with out a mag disconnect, but not a Glock or 1911 with out a mag disconnect

I guess the reasoning is, why are you altering, modifying, and removing the factory implemented safety features of your firearm?
The wording of that question is leading, and can easily get you into a lot of trouble.

 

[Sevens]

A far better answer is... life your life, do what you want to do with the things you own and don't get caught up in overblown "legal boogie-man" nonsense.

 

[nocents]

The big "advantage" for me on a S&W 52 is there simply is no way to lower that hammer without a magazine. On your typical DA/SA pistol (which covers most S&W 1-2-3rd Gens), there's a lever that allows you to lower the hammer.

well now this is the first and only reason I've read that has some merit IMO....and Sevens is referring to strictly a range gun instead of a ccw

 

[Jim L]

I never said anything of the sort. The issue is making a pistol into something it wasn't originally designed to do. Smoothing a trigger is completely different than changing a safety feature, especially when there are identical pistols available with your desired feature. I cringe when people take a dremel tool to hammer spurs or trigger serrations, and I laugh at the people who can't figure out a slide stop lever or a safety. Use the tool the way it was intended, and if you want to perform a different job, buy a different tool . . .

I have to disagree a bit.. A S&W SD was designed with a heavier trigger pull as a type of safety feature so a new shooter would not have an accidental fire of the gun.. Putting a Apex kit in to lighten the trigger changes how & why S&W designed the trigger the way they did.
So to me, there is not much difference.
If ignorant people would follow basic handgun fundamentals this whole thread would be a mute point.

 

[Jim L]

I guess the reasoning is, why are you altering, modifying, and removing the factory implemented safety features of your firearm?
The wording of that question is leading, and can easily get you into a lot of trouble.

well than a trigger job would also alter the gun & make it less safe

 

[TTSH]

well than a trigger job would also alter the gun & make it less safe

Actually, in some extreme or mishandled situations, that is a 100% true statement. A competition-grade hair trigger on a carry gun or home defense gun could be a serious disaster in the making.

But a routine trigger job appropriate to the gun and its intended use/purpose? I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[rwt1405]

I'll keep mine intact, thank you.

 

[Outrider]

How much would removing a magazine disconnect cost?

It's a feature I've never liked on 3rd Gens -- and I'm planning on having several removed at some point -- including my 1006s and 4516, 4566 and 4506.

However, I DO want "Caution -- Capable of firing with magazine removed" engraved on BOTH sides of the pistol.

My new, unfired 4586 came without the disconnect.

Plus, I'd tell anyone who picked up the pistol that it had could fire without a magazine.

Does removing it affect trigger action or reliability?

Smith & Wesson recently told me, up until about 4 years ago, they COULD remove the disconnect -- provided the caution was engraved on the gun -- but can't any longer.

(At least, that's what I UNDERSTOOD... )