Arik
Member
Ummm....I never said they don't exist. You sure you're quoting the right person?
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Babi Yar
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
This serves very well as a historical reminder to those Americans mostly on the left who like to criticize Israel for its settling of Arab lands and actually for its entire existence in the place where it does, like in the recent "boycott Israeli goods" movement.
I usually argue that they better pack up their stuff and move back to Europe before they have any moral high ground from which to criticize Israel's existence.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Don't worry, he is intentionally misinterpreting me, not you. Or maybe my argument really was too complicated, always a possibility since he called me elitist.
JavierLaurido
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Israel its by far, the most genocidal state on the world at this moment.
A lot has been said on previous posts about genocide, so I went to the United Nations for the definition of genocide, and I found the following:
"Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to destroy a group includes the deliberate deprivation of resources needed for the group's physical survival, such as clean water, food, clothing, shelter or medical services. Deprivation of the means to sustain life can be imposed through confiscation of harvests, blockade of foodstuffs, detention in camps, forcible relocation or expulsion into deserts."
If thats doesent reflect exactly what the Israelies do against the Palestinians, with their blockade of ships carring humanitarian supplies and medicine, the cut of clean water, the bombardment of water treatment plants, schools, and hospitals, and the building of walls to separate families, if all of that is not genocide carried on by the State I am very confused.
Source of the definition of genocide:
The international legal definition of genocide - Prevent Genocide International
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Arik, I was referring to the oh so clever wordsmithery of absolom when he tried to say Jews didn't exist.
Your post illuminates the truth, that indeed the Jewish people do, (his own screen name came from the family of David.)
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Really???
Does the name Assad mean anything to you? How about the name ISIS...does that ring a bell?
Your clarified (anti-Semitic) position has promoted you to the ignore list.
Goodbye.
blues7
Member
TexMex, I don't know if you're trying to not understand the point that Absalom was trying to make or his point eludes you.
If I'm reading what he said earlier correctly, he's obviously not saying that Jews don't exist in a literal sense. (And I'm sure you realize that and were being facetious in some of your replies.)
What he's saying is that the majority of Jews have moved on from the old ways, are not recognizable by wearing particular garb or adhering to strict religious law and observance.
Most have assimilated and for all intents and purposes lead very secular lives which have little to do with following Jewish traditions.
Of course there are still those who do adhere to traditional ways and garb and do stand out from the crowd.
The point is, one would have to make an effort to search for and find out who the secular Jews were because on virtually any level there was nothing to set them apart from their neighbors and countrymen.
If my sense of this is wrong, I'll happily be corrected by Absalom.
If I'm reading what he said earlier correctly, he's obviously not saying that Jews don't exist in a literal sense. (And I'm sure you realize that and were being facetious in some of your replies.)
What he's saying is that the majority of Jews have moved on from the old ways, are not recognizable by wearing particular garb or adhering to strict religious law and observance.
Most have assimilated and for all intents and purposes lead very secular lives which have little to do with following Jewish traditions.
Of course there are still those who do adhere to traditional ways and garb and do stand out from the crowd.
The point is, one would have to make an effort to search for and find out who the secular Jews were because on virtually any level there was nothing to set them apart from their neighbors and countrymen.
If my sense of this is wrong, I'll happily be corrected by Absalom.
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JavierLaurido
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Assad Syria, and Isis, been genocidal groups/countries doesent imply theres no room left for others genocidals to join the group. And if I dont remember bad, Israel has been violating United Nations resolutions far before those groups.
JavierLaurido
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I can assume too, you also ignore United Nations definition of genocide, as some countries do.
And you are mistaken, I am not anti-semitic, by pointing facts.
I have to refer to my page 1 post which shows Albrights quote, in her voice, regarding Iraq. What could have been a non nuclear Iran, a balance of power or a warring world we can't know.
This madness is neither new, nor abated. The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (includes Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, Jordan and a part of Egypt) are certainly practicing genocide, and on a rather widespread basis. They are "othering" most everyone outside their tent, and are being funded and supplied by....someone.
And that someone certainly isn't the state of Israel.
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I am not a mind-reader, nor can I look into others' hearts, therefore I try to avoid ascribing sentiments or attitudes to people unless it's crystal clear what they're saying.
You wrote: "Israel its by far, the most genocidal state on the world at this moment...." If the subject were not so serious, such a silly statement would be laughable.
PatriotX has described you as anti-Semitic...I concur. I will no longer respond to your posts.
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cmort666
Member
If they are, then either:
- they're one of the singularly LEAST effective practitioners of genocide in human history.
- you have a definition of "genocide" bearing no relationship whatever to the commonly accepted meaning of the term.
Maybe you're confusing the Israelis and whomever with ISIS and the Yazidis...
the ringo kid
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Ditto that.
Thanks
well, I quite clearly understood his words, since the premise is simple. Way back in the string of posts, yes, we established that Hitler identified "Jews" as those who had certain physical characteristics and financial associations, rather than solely on their religious activities. Anyone who has even briefly studied the history of that horrible time would know that.
Understand that Absolom had stated that no Bolsheviks had committed murder on this side of the Atlantic, and I was willing to use that absurdity as a comparison to his "Jews don't exist" abstraction.
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Same here. He finally confirmed what I'd strongly suspected from his first post.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Thank you, that was exactly my point. And equally important, they were not organized as a people, force, subversive society or whatever anti-semites liked to fantasize about (and some apparently still do).
When Theodor Herzl came up with his idea for a Jewish state in the 1890s, assimilated Western European Jews considered him a gadfly; he found an audience mostly in Eastern Europe, where Jews had been segregated and persecuted as described above.
In Germany, it would actually be better to talk about Germans of Jewish origin than German Jews, so unnoticable were most of them. They were easily identified only because German laws required all citizens to register locally, including by religion. Otherwise, the whole perverted chase after half-Jews, quarter-Jews, etc. would never have been possible. My grandfathers, both in public service, had to document their Aryan descent into the 1800s to keep their jobs.
For the Nazi's purpose, the whole thing with the yellow star (invented in the Middle Ages), with forcing all Jews to take the middle names Israel or Sarah, and stamping a big J on the identity card everyone had to carry, served to create a common group identity, to provide a target, which in the Western countries didn't exist any more.
blues7
Member
Okay then...Well, I don't think there's anything more I can contribute to this conversation but to say that I'm really proud to associate with some folks whose point of view, intellect and values I admire....and I look forward to sharing further conversations with you.
I will also say in closing that I find it sad that some folks will continue to hate no matter whether there is justification or not. Their minds will not be changed with facts nor rational argument. Appeals to common humanity fall on (seemingly) deaf ears.
To those who hate without provocation or basis, I recognize your right to your thoughts and feelings and I only offer the admonition...
I will also say in closing that I find it sad that some folks will continue to hate no matter whether there is justification or not. Their minds will not be changed with facts nor rational argument. Appeals to common humanity fall on (seemingly) deaf ears.
To those who hate without provocation or basis, I recognize your right to your thoughts and feelings and I only offer the admonition...
OP
cmort666
Member
Well, moving along, the Kurds (and to a lesser extent, the Yazidis) are demonstrating what the Bielski brothers and Mordechai Anilewicz proved in the '40s.
If you depend upon somebody else to protect you from evil, you might as well shoot yourself.
If you fight back, you've at least got a chance. At worst, you'll take some of them with you. On more than one occasion, I've had people actually tell me that the latter case was actually morally WRONG. Of course I've never been overly polite with people who tell me they won't like me unless I passively let somebody slaughter me.
If your "friends" tell you to let somebody butcher you, they're not really your friends...
If you depend upon somebody else to protect you from evil, you might as well shoot yourself.
If you fight back, you've at least got a chance. At worst, you'll take some of them with you. On more than one occasion, I've had people actually tell me that the latter case was actually morally WRONG. Of course I've never been overly polite with people who tell me they won't like me unless I passively let somebody slaughter me.
If your "friends" tell you to let somebody butcher you, they're not really your friends...
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cmort666
Member
The real irony is that if you had asked a Jew in 1910 where an actual "Holocaust" was likely to occur, he'd have told you, Russia or France. No pogroms in Germany. It was "l'Affaire Dreyfus", not "die Dreifuss Affäre".
Many German Jews served with distinction in the First World War, including the aces Voss and Frankl.
There was an undercurrent of hysterical anti-Semitism on the fringes of Austrian and German society before the war. Hitler somehow managed to capitalize on it in a way nobody could have imagined. It's as if next week Massachusetts started having witchcraft trials again, and in the coming year, they were held at the Federal level.
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