127gr +P+ Winchester Ranger T in M&P 9?

fallhunter

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Will my new M&P 9 handle the 127gr +P+ Winchester Ranger T rounds? I like what I have seen out of this round, but don't want to end up with a big kaboom. Any personal experience?

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Yes, it will handle it. A steady diet of them will put more wear and tear on the gun not to mention your wallet! If you are planning on carrying them, make sure they are accurate in YOUR gun, compare to standard load JHP ammo. Make sure your follow up shots aren't adversely affected.
 
Yes. Don't shoot thousands of them but it will handle whatever you want to load.

Shoot a few hundred and you wouldn't notice much of anything. Shoot a few thousand and you'd start to get some wear

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Shooting +P+ ammo in a Shield isn't recommended by S&W (it's actually discouraged in the manual), but your M&P won't turn into a grenade if you use them.

You will, however, experience increased wear and an earlier need for service/repairs if you shoot them by the bushel full.
 
I will be lucky if ever in my life I ever shoot 1000 rounds out of one firearm before it becomes a safe queen collecting dust or gets sold. And if I did wear one out, just buy another one.

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CoMF pretty much said it all. Lots of questions about +P and +P+ ammo and I have to ask why? IMHO recoil, muzzle blast, wear on the weapon and second shot accuracy are not worth any gain in power.
 
I will be lucky if ever in my life I ever shoot 1000 rounds out of one firearm before it becomes a safe queen collecting dust or gets sold. And if I did wear one out, just buy another one.

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Then it really doesn't matter

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I like what I have seen out of this round

What do you like? Bigger bang? Faster bullet impact? Accuracy?

If I can't match the accuracy with a +P at 50 fps less speed, I'll kiss your grits. The bullet matters most in accuracy.

The other things you do get more of with the +P+, but have you shot any, or just buying into the publicity?
 
I've gone to the wicked fast Liberty Civil Defense +P fragmenting ammo in my carry pistols. In 9mm, the 50 Grain Lead-Free Fragmenting Hollow Point bullet travels at 2000 feet per second, resulting in 12 inches of ballistic gel penetration and a permanent wound cavity greater than 3.5 inches in diameter. This light bullet, high velocity round yields 16% less felt recoil and has an effective range of 25 meters.

Devastating and doesn't beat up your gun.
 
I've gone to the wicked fast Liberty Civil Defense +P fragmenting ammo in my carry pistols. In 9mm, the 50 Grain Lead-Free Fragmenting Hollow Point bullet travels at 2000 feet per second, resulting in 12 inches of ballistic gel penetration and a permanent wound cavity greater than 3.5 inches in diameter. This light bullet, high velocity round yields 16% less felt recoil and has an effective range of 25 meters.

Devastating and doesn't beat up your gun.
Not worried about the gun over a length of time. I won't shoot more than maybe 10 rounds per year of the +P+. I just don't want it destroyed in one round.

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It's kind of funny that folks are ready and willing to step up and proclaim ammo made by a major manufacturer like Winchester is basically a Ka-Boom waiting to happen. For some law enforcement this is their duty round. Maas recommends it on the Glock forum. Do you really think the Glock is a much stronger gun than an M&P?
 
I suspect the gun will be fine but I'd pick something else. I think you can get just as effective terminal performance without the extra recoil and wear and tear of the +P+ ammo. I like the testing results I've seen from Winchester's 147gr PDX1and Ranger Bonded ammo.
 
I have not shot that round out of my M&P personally.
I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it with a good recoil spring.
About the only thing that might happen is a broken slide catch.
And if your M&P is a newer make, I don't see that happening.

Shoot some of it. Carry it. And train with regular. That what I'd do.

Best of luck buddy.
 
I suspect the gun will be fine but I'd pick something else. I think you can get just as effective terminal performance without the extra recoil and wear and tear of the +P+ ammo. I like the testing results I've seen from Winchester's 147gr PDX1and Ranger Bonded ammo.
I would prefer the performance of +P+, and why not? Parts can be replaced over time, as can the whole gun, for that matter. I probably only shoot 200 rounds a year, at most out of a given firearm, and only a few of them are my defence rounds. I have a lot of the Ranger T 127 +P+, so I want to use it.

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I find threads like this humorous. The manual clearly states not to shoot +P+ in any M&P. It's not a suggestion. It says that +P might cause excessive wear, but not to shoot +P+.

The problem with +P+ is there are no standards for it. One company might make a load that is 35K PSI and the next might be 40K PSI. The gun is designed for 30K PSI so, how much is to much?

What's even better is that +P+ or even just +P doesn't get you any more effectiveness.
 
The bunch I worked for years ago mandated and supplied +P+ in 115 and 124 grain variants for those of us who preferred to carry personally owned 9mm Glocks and Sigs. I have personally shot several thousand of them thru a Gen 1 G17 and Gen 2 19 with no problems and not even any perceived acceleration of wear. That was back in the day when the .40 was in its infancy and everyone was beginning to marvel its performance. With that agency, however, of the officer involved shootings with 9mm +P+ loads, I know of none that required more than one round to stop the attack. When I changed employers, I still carried a 9, but this time 147 grain Hydra Shoks. I didn't notice any difference in perceived recoil from the same pistols. One local agency I currently work with has issued the Winchester 127 for years and have been happy with its performance; first in third gen S&Ws, and then in Gen 3 & 4 Glocks. The third gen Smiths had their share of problems, I'm told, but ammo did not seem to be culprit. I had talked to an old fed who had been around since the original 110 grain +P+ Treasure Load and had carried a variety of J and K frames with that round. He said that the only issues he'd seen were the smaller guns suffering increased wear. An internal part might break once in a while, or the timing might go out of whack, but the guns never Ka-boomed. The M&P 9s are pretty robust, so I would not be concerned with catastrophic failure caused by a properly loaded commercial bullet. It might wear out the springs faster. I don't know that I'd necessarily use it in a Shield, but aside from a maybe slightly more unpleasant recoil, it would likely accelerate wear &a tear. That said, I would not shoot it in some cheap, off-brand ***. For what it's worth, I still see some Federal aHydra Shok 38 Special 147 +P+ in J frames and have fired a fair share of it myself. Original FBI specs clocked the velocity at 950 fps, not really any more potent than their earlier FBI 158 LSWHP. While neither is pleasant to shoot thru a J, they aren't so brutal as to cause structural failure unless quality control on either product, bullet or gun was absent on the day of manufacture.
 
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I find threads like this humorous. The manual clearly states not to shoot +P+ in any M&P. It's not a suggestion. It says that +P might cause excessive wear, but not to shoot +P+.

The problem with +P+ is there are no standards for it. One company might make a load that is 35K PSI and the next might be 40K PSI. The gun is designed for 30K PSI so, how much is to much?

What's even better is that +P+ or even just +P doesn't get you any more effectiveness.
In my tests, it has. It's been barrel length. However, I have found once you get longer than a 5" barrel, they start to penetrate less.

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