My 'Ugly' American

[SchofieldKid]

I love the antique stuff! I will say that the lanyard ring is not the pattern that S&W supplied at the time. The S&W installed lanyard ring had a pin through the frame to prevent the lanyard stud from unscrewing and the end of the threaded post was domed. I suspect that it was installed by M. W. Robinson but I can't explain the marking on the ring stud. Gosh, I love a good mystery.

I hear what you're saying about the lanyard stud and it makes sense that you wouldn't want it to unscrew at all. Maybe they used a drop of Loctite! I haven't seen many 1st or 2nd mdl. Americans with a lanyard ring for comparison so I really have no reason to believe it's original.........yet, would M.W. Robinson have stamped the assembly number on it? What were the available options for a pistol ordered from S&W at the time? I do not know. As you say, a good mystery! Thanks for your comments.

 

[SchofieldKid]

Same position, different location on my 8" American. My 8" barrel has the addy (etc) more centered and located further back from the retainer screw.

So...some other folks with comparisons will chime in, but, if the barrel marking being more centered based on barrel length, I'd say your pistol might be factory with that shorter barrel.

Wow...great looking!

I'm not at all sure that the barrel address is any way to solve this mystery, just a thought I had while trying to figure it out.
Most of the books refer to anything less than an 8" barrel on an American as being "shortened", which to me assumes that only one barrel length was made at S&W. Is that factual? Again, I do not know. Hopefully, an expert here will help out with this and possibly the lanyard mystery also. Thanks for all your comments.

 

[jleiper]

The lanyard ring is definitely different from the Russian Contract revolvers and 2nd Model Americans. The fact that the face of the stamping on the lanyard ring mount seems to match the face of the rest of the assembly number stamps makes me think it is factory.

Serial 211 Russian Contract
Joe

 

[jleiper]

I'm not at all sure that the barrel address is any way to solve this mystery, just a thought I had while trying to figure it out.
Most of the books refer to anything less than an 8" barrel on an American as being "shortened", which to me assumes that only one barrel length was made at S&W. Is that factual? Again, I do not know. Hopefully, an expert here will help out with this and possibly the lanyard mystery also. Thanks for all your comments.

The American Models had a standard barrel length of 8 inches. However, they were made with 5 1/2, 6, 6 1/2 and 7 inch barrels as well.
Joe

 

[JSR III]

I would have to agree with Joe. It would be very odd for MW Robinson to have the exact same metal stamps as the factory both in size and font. Not impossible but just seems unlikely. They were a big enough distributor that if they asked the factory for a set they could have probably gotten them but I still think it unlikely.

I don't think the gun has been browned other than by time. That is a typical patina look found on many old S&W's, especially those that are 100+ years old.

That is a beauty and I would be very proud to own it.

 

[29aholic]

Man I would love to own that gun. I might even make a carry gun out of it.

 

[Watchdog]

What a beautiful old revolver!

Wouldn't it be great to know its ownership history...and to know where it's been and what it's done.

To put things in a little bit of a historical context, three months after that revolver shipped, Jesse James and his gang robbed the Obocock Bank in Croydon, Iowa.

Orville Wright was born five months later.

The NRA was organized in NYC that year.

On September 3, 1871, Lt. Col. George Custer assumed command of a post in Elizabethtown, Kentucky.

And in October of 1871, the Great Chicago Fire occurred.

That old revolver has seen some interesting times.

 

[model3sw]

A couple of shots of the muzzle to support my 'original' claim. It also occurs to me that the barrel address is centered between the front sight and the cylinder retainer screw, is that correct or is the address in the same location for an 8" barrel pistol?

The barrel looks good Factory 6" by the centered roll stamp. It looks good and it is HONEST !

Can you include a picture of the underside of the barrel (flat spot near hinge showing hinge and extractor plate as it sits with the barrel closed) ?

Need to see this area. The oil hole is reported to be gone by SN 1500 but I have encountered an oil hole at 170x with a 6" barrel.

What's your's like. Oil hole or no oil hole ? Thanks, Sal

 

[model3sw]

Thanks guys, I guess after looking at so many near pristine pistols on here I was a bit embarrassed to post it, but I still like it! Here's a shot of why I think the lanyard is original--E4 marked on 5 different places. The marking on the lanyard stud is about as tiny as I've ever seen--looks like the 'E' was double stamped.

It looks good to me. first time I've seen (or noticed, probably because the stud ends get worn and rusty) a lanyard stud marked.

Nice.

 

[model3sw]

Thanks guys, I guess after looking at so many near pristine pistols on here I was a bit embarrassed to post it, but I still like it! Here's a shot of why I think the lanyard is original--E4 marked on 5 different places. The marking on the lanyard stud is about as tiny as I've ever seen--looks like the 'E' was double stamped.

See Col. Chas. Pate book: Smith & Wesson American Models" Page 300 for the different lanyard rings.

 

[SchofieldKid]

The barrel looks good Factory 6" by the centered roll stamp. It looks good and it is HONEST !

Can you include a picture of the underside of the barrel (flat spot near hinge showing hinge and extractor plate as it sits with the barrel closed) ?

Need to see this area. The oil hole is reported to be gone by SN 1500 but I have encountered an oil hole at 170x with a 6" barrel.

What's your's like. Oil hole or no oil hole ? Thanks, Sal

Sorry Sal, but no oil hole. I've read the same info about S/N 1500 being the cut-off.......but I know from experience that an exact S/N, date, or change period for any firearm is almost never the case in reality! Not an expert at all, just observation over the years for many collectible items I've researched. Here's the only pic I have of the underside. Thanks for your comments and reading this.

 

[SchofieldKid]

It looks good to me. first time I've seen (or noticed, probably because the stud ends get worn and rusty) a lanyard stud marked.

Nice.

I probably had this pistol for 2 years before I noticed that tiny little stamping. The only reason I saw it was because I was taking the pistol to a gun show to have a knowledgeable S&W collector look at it. He was referred to me by a friend who knew quite a bit more about it than I did at the time. After looking it over, he said he didn't think the lanyard was original, but I took along a magnifier and showed him the minute 'E4' on the stud. At that, he pronounced it original and also said the pistol reminded him of the Nashville Police 6" revolvers some 1400 S/N's later. I don't know if those had lanyards or not and I thought they were nickle plated, but maybe not. I certainly need to get the Pate book for reference. Thanks for all your help.

 

[crossv]

The 31 (or 32) Nashville Police guns were blued and did not have any lanyard rings. One of the surviving examples (Police # 19) has a nice old nickel refinish which may lead some to think they were made that way originally.

cb

 

[DesmoEd]

That looks pretty honest, is the front sight pinned?

Odd it didn't letter with the short barrel, I'd probably ask Roy to please check the records again.

 

[SchofieldKid]

The 31 (or 32) Nashville Police guns were blued and did not have any lanyard rings. One of the surviving examples (Police # 19) has a nice old nickel refinish which may lead some to think they were made that way originally.

cb

Appreciate the info on the Nashville police guns, just couldn't remember how they were configured. I'd guess the 6" barrel is what came to his mind at the time.

 

[SchofieldKid]

That looks pretty honest, is the front sight pinned?

Odd it didn't letter with the short barrel, I'd probably ask Roy to please check the records again.

Yes, pinned. Looks like a German or nickle-silver sight blade. As I understand it, the factory records of that period are a bit sketchy on details and can only assume Mr. Jinks furnished all the data that exists. Thanks.

 

[mmaher94087]

The 'E4' on the lanyard ring stud is very intriguing and makes me wonder about the round rings that were on the Cuban shipped NM#3 revolvers as they are very similar. They were not designed in the common style at the time and I always assumed that they were dealer supplied. Were they possibly "factory" as opposed to distributor supplied? Anyone have a NM#3 shipped to Cuba with a fitters mark on the lanyard ring stud? An idle mind does wonders..

 

[SchofieldKid]

2 details I failed to document, the squared-off trigger...... and the very "boogered" extractor retaining screw.

 

[jleiper]

Could you post a picture of the rear face of the frame where the hammer/firing pin come out? This revolver should not have the steel insert in the frame.
Joe

 

[gmborkovic]

Hey Kid, that screw is not buggered. It is a classic, original screw,
with the center drill accent.