Until the MAS 49, virtually NO general issue French rifles had safeties. They carried them with an empty chamber.Heck didn't the French have a rifle with no safety? ..Oh but they didn't give their troops any ammo until they got shot at first..right?LOL
Only with certain hunting types. Wouldn't get a rabbit quail or pheasant with an empty gun.
Even still hunting deer is done with a loaded gun.
And it doesn't matter how many of a certain type of are is in the hands of people. If more AD/NDs happen with one type of firearm percentage wise it is usually some type of problem with that firearm...even if it is with lack of training to solve that problem
Franklin said:Our local Sheriff's Dept has multiple holes in the wall at the cleaning table.....
A coworker of mine and I were talking about the situation and he said that back when he worked in Los Angeles there was a rash of LA county deputies shooting themselves and others when the department switched from Berretta 92's to the S&W M&P's. I would think that agencies would either issue weapons with some safety features or train these guys to stay off the trigger. What gives?
I like to say that the Glock is like the C programming language.I'm the Firearms Instructor for my Sheriff's Office in Missouri and there's no problem out here with AD's. Keep your finger out of the trigger area and along side the slide until you need to use it. It's that simple. Glocks are great guns. I carry a model 19 Talo edition in my rotation. Glocks do not forgive the ignorant user. There's no safety except on the trigger and your brain.
Our local Sheriff's Dept has multiple holes in the wall at the cleaning table.....
It's a question of governmental entities trying to substitute gadgets for proper training, personal responsibility and common sense.I taught my wife and daughter how to shoot as well as many others. I always told them that they didn't need to be afraid of the gun unless it was pointed at them or they did something stupid. I also told them that YOU control the gun. Don't let the gun control you.
It's simply amazing that there has to be a long drawn out discussion about gun safety. The rules apply at all times.
Glock has three passive safeties that are disengaged when the trigger is pulled. A trigger safety, firing pin safety, and drop safety. The "tang" on the trigger is NOT a drop safety. So what does that tell you? Keep your figure off the trigger. Millions and millions of Glock pistols have been sold around the world. If the gun was deemed unsafe, we would have heard about it.
Millions and millions of Glock pistols have been sold around the world. If the gun was deemed unsafe, we would have heard about it.
Glock has three passive safeties that are disengaged when the trigger is pulled. A trigger safety, firing pin safety, and drop safety. The "tang" on the trigger is NOT a drop safety. So what does that tell you? Keep your figure off the trigger. Millions and millions of Glock pistols have been sold around the world. If the gun was deemed unsafe, we would have heard about it.
Womder why didn't our military go with Glock in the past? Or this time?
Let's not let research get in the way of feelings or one video shown 100 times....... Somehow means it happened a 100 timesBased on what I've read... There was a significant increase of unintentional discharges when switching from the 92 to the S&W, but that didn't translate to more injuries-- 2/year before, 2/year after.
"Why" did they switch? In part it's been reported that the decision was motivated by a threat of a lawsuit by women failing the Sheriff's Academy firearms test. Wanted a smaller handgun to better fit their smaller hands.
Reasons for the increase?
Here are some excerpts from the Inspector General's reports.
Of note, the analysis revealed two primary causal factors which may explain the increase in unintentional discharges:
* Poor trigger discipline and
* Failure to adhere to the Four Basic Firearms Safety Rules.17
In fact, the Weapons Training Unit analysis found in all but two of the thirty-one 2014 unintended discharge incidents, the employee had his finger on the trigger when the firearm discharged. The two exceptions occurred when an object, a coat hook and a portable radio antenna, respectively, caught on the trigger of an M&P pistol. The authors of the analysis noted that until 2002, LASD personnel were trained, "on target, on trigger," meaning that as a deputy is pointing his or her Beretta 92F at a target the finger would be on the trigger. According to interviews we conducted, in 2002, the training curriculum was updated so that deputies were taught to keep their trigger finger along the frame of the pistol and off the trigger until he or she made the decision to shoot. According to the Weapons Training Unit report, older deputies often kept the prior learned practice of resting their finger on the trigger, despite the new training. The report's authors concluded "that the practice of 'riding the trigger' has resulted in an increase in unintentional discharges."
Our review found no instances where the deputy actually had his M&P "on target" when a reported unintended discharge occurred. In fact, during interviews, some LASD staff expressed the opinion that many deputies habitually placed their fingers on the trigger in a potentially adversarial setting even when not pointing their gun at a suspect. The presence or absence of an external safety lever is not as relevant in tactical circumstances, as once a deputy draws a pistol in a potentially adversarial setting, he or she would generally flip the safety to the "off" position when using the Beretta 92F. If the deputy rests a finger on the trigger as a matter of habit whenever the handgun is drawn, the 6.5 pound trigger pull of the M&P would make an unintended discharge significantly more likely than with the 92F's 11.5 pound trigger pull (for the first round fired).
https://oig.lacounty.gov/Portals/OIG/Reports/Unintended Discharge Report.pdf
ONLY if you have big hands and or long fingers.The 92's ergonomics make it a nice gun to shoot, managable recoil, accurate, reliable and easy to use, but a bit bulky compared to many others.
Just a point of parliamentary procedure, but the "drop safety" is so named because the trigger bar "drops" off the safety ramp as the trigger is pressed rearward, disengaging from the firing pin and allowing it to move forward, firing the pistol. The trigger safety, on the other hand, and I quote from the Armorer's Manual, "is designed to prevent accidental firing when the pistol is dropped or subjected to an off-center lateral pressure or similar force."
It's a question of governmental entities trying to substitute gadgets for proper training, personal responsibility and common sense.
I've seen people get absolutely belligerent in their assertions that you CAN'T teach the basics of firearms safety to cops.
I simply don't believe it. If we applied that "reasoning" across the board, cops would be driving Amish buggies instead of Crown Vics... [\b]until a horse got spooked and trampled somebody. Then it'd be bicycles, inevitably followed by shoe leather.