Reduced load question

[Mr_Flintstone]

I've read here and other places not to ever shoot 130 grain .357 magnum in a Model 19 revolver. I'd like to hand load some reduced velocity rounds with 125 gr bullets to about 850 fps out of a 4 inch barrel. Would that be safe to shoot in the Model 19? Near as I can figure, it would be about like shooting .38 special except from a full length case.

 

[H Richard]

That would not cause any problem. The problem with the "light bullet" was only with the hot magnum loads.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Thanks. That's kinda what I thought, but I figured I'd check first.

 

[JP@AK]

Mr_Flintstone
Just to be clear, the "problem" with magnum ammo using light bullets (110 gr. or 125 gr. for example) isn't really a "safety" matter. The issue is the possibility, with extensive use, of causing some failure at the breach end of the barrel due to what is essentially flame cutting at the forcing cone location. When this has happened, it has been the result of using thousands upon thousands of rounds of "hot" loads with the lighter bullets. If you mean to speak of the "safety" of the gun itself (that is, damage to the breach end of the barrel) then I suppose "safety" is a correct term. But if "safety" means the potential for harm to the shooter, it really isn't accurate. Frankly, occasional use of 125 gr. .357 Magnum ammunition in a Model 19 is no big deal. But in terms of your actual question, reduced loads in the magnum case is also no problem, as stated by H Richard.

 

[gwpercle]

The "problem" seemed to be excessive gas cutting of the top strap.
I have read that when the cutting reached a certian depth , it stopped.
I'm thinking it's more of a mole hill made into a mountain problem.
But that's how the story went.

 

[4barrel]

Going that slow I use 2400 or Unique with a magnum primer in my 19s. I have seen 4227 loaded down not ignite with a standard primer. The Lee reload manual will point you in the right direction. It gives you the speed--bullet weight--and a wider powder choice for a safe load. I like 125 grain bullets but they group better out of my 19s at about 1000 fps. using a magnum case.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Going that slow I use 2400 or Unique with a magnum primer in my 19s. I have seen 4227 loaded down not ignite with a standard primer. The Lee reload manual will point you in the right direction. It gives you the speed--bullet weight--and a wider powder choice for a safe load. I like 125 grain bullets but they group better out of my 19s at about 1000 fps. using a magnum case.

I was going to use 4 grains of Titegroup @ about 850 fps. I may go up to 4.5 grains @ 980 fps

 

[ikarus1]

Thats basically a 38+p load

 

[BruceM]

The issue is the possibility, with extensive use, of causing some failure at the breach end of the barrel due to what is essentially flame cutting at the forcing cone location. When this has happened, it has been the result of using thousands upon thousands of rounds of "hot" loads with the lighter bullets.

This is not the case. The problem also included cracked forcing cones and it occurred in many LE service revolvers with absolutely WERE NOT subject to the firing of "thousands upon thousands" of rounds.

The "problem" seemed to be excessive gas cutting of the top strap.

The problem did not refer to gas cutting of the top strap but rather erosion and cracking of the barrel's forcing cone. It is not unusual to find to this day K-Frame .357 magnums with cracked forcing cones and there are no new factory replacement barrels.

Bruce

 

[reddog81]

A 125 grain bullet at 850 isn't even a +P load. It's close to the max for regular 38 special and would do fine in a .357 case. Any model 19 in decent condition should be able to handle 10,000+ firings of a load like that without any noticable wear.

 

[SW Model 19 Guy]

Lets ask a more basic question. Why are you loading 357 brass to 38 special or 38+P loadings? Just load 38 special brass to 38 special loads.

 

[JP@AK]

The problem also included cracked forcing cones

I stand corrected. That is actually what I meant. I just said it poorly.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Lets ask a more basic question. Why are you loading 357 brass to 38 special or 38+P loadings? Just load 38 special brass to 38 special loads.

It's just less cleaning. When I shoot 38 special it leaves a ring in the cylinder that I have to scrub out with a brass brush, or it builds up and makes it hard to load .357. I just figured As long as it was as easy to load one as the, I'd just load some light .357.

 

[Jack Flash]

I was going to use 4 grains of Titegroup @ about 850 fps. I may go up to 4.5 grains @ 980 fps

Hodgdon lists 6.8 grains of Titegroup as a starting load for that bullet weight in a .357 Magnum. I would be concerned about going above or below published data. Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading

If you use .38 Special cases, 4.3 grains Titegroup should get the velocity you desire. I tend to be very cautious in these matters, and prefer to only use published data from a trusted source rather than what "some guy on the internet" tells me.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Hodgdon lists 6.8 grains of Titegroup as a starting load for that bullet weight in a .357 Magnum. I would be concerned about going above or below published data. Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading

If you use .38 Special cases, 4.3 grains Titegroup should get the velocity you desire. I tend to be very cautious in these matters, and prefer to only use published data from a trusted source rather than what "some guy on the internet" tells me.

Really? "Some guy". I checked Hodgdonreloading.com . It gives 4.0-5.4 gr. Titegroup for LRNFP; which is the bullet I'll be using. The 6.8-7.5 is for XTP.

 

[Drm50]

I have seen 1, S&W 19 with cone cracked. No idea of round count
gun was PD trade in. However I have seen many other 357s with
cracked cones and I know they weren't hi count guns. All them
had been firing light bullet/ mag loads. This seems to occur more
in the bargan DAs.off brands. The single action guns don't seem
to suffer this. Ruger Blackhawks are cranked out with 110s and
I have never seen a cracked cone. Some bad throat erosion but
no cracks. I have seen cylinders blown and top strap warped, but
no cone damage. These guns have hi count with hot loads, owners are shooting a couple boxes a week at steel silos.

 

[Jack Flash]

Really? "Some guy". I checked Hodgdonreloading.com . It gives 4.0-5.4 gr. Titegroup for LRNFP; which is the bullet I'll be using. The 6.8-7.5 is for XTP.

No need to take offense. If you have published data for the load you want to use, there you go.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

No need to take offense. If you have published data for the load you want to use, there you go.

No offense taken. We're cool. I was originally a little miffed that the data you referred me to was the same data I was quoting, then I realized that it only shows one bullet design by default. You have to click the little + sign to see all the others. You had to expand the table to see the LRNFP.

 

[BruceM]

Why are you loading 357 brass to 38 special or 38+P loadings? Just load 38 special brass to 38 special loads.

Why screw around with .38 Special brass in a .357 Magnum revolver? At the time when .38 Special revolvers dominated the LE market, the shorter brass was much easier to get but now-not hardly. And this is in addition to the aforementioned additional cleaning concerns which using the short brass entails.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

Bruce

 

[DWalt]

"It's just less cleaning. When I shoot 38 special it leaves a ring in the cylinder that I have to scrub out with a brass brush, or it builds up and makes it hard to load .357. I just figured As long as it was as easy to load one as the, I'd just load some light .357. "

That seems to be conventional wisdom, but I have found it to be false. I shoot very little .357 Mag in my revolvers of that chambering, probably use 99% .38 Special. I always clean the chambers with a wire brush after use, never had the slightest problem with using .357 Mag ammunition, no rings, no residue. Could be true for an extreme high-volume shooter, and I am not in that category.