The center of center mass

[richardw]

Shooting and running is a very interesting combination. My accuracy goes down rapidly. Of course I practice at top speed on each. I want to know the capability to hit center mass I have when moving with a purpose. I find I can get two hits well but the third is who knows. Mostly I am moving laterally or toward the targets. Firing three shots is tough and four requires I slow down.

When moving and shooting accuracy is always affected unless you are moving from cover to cover. In that case you need to take a deep breath and aim. But shooting while moving is generally just away of keeping the bad gy's head down while exposed. You cannot rush a gun fight. If you do, you could easily lose the fight. There is no substitute for careful aim and accuracy when trying to deliver a lethal shot.

I once monitored a class a friend of mine was taking in which he had to go from cover to cover and deliver rounds at the target. He was given a certain amount of time to complete the course. When the class was over I asked the indyructor why. He said that had a schedule so he had to divide up the time based upon the number of students he had. I asked how does that relate to the real world of a gunfight? He didn't answer.

Take cover, take your time, take aim, and win.

 

[forrestinmathews]

When moving and shooting accuracy is always affected unless you are moving from cover to cover. In that case you need to take a deep breath and aim. But shooting while moving is generally just away of keeping the bad gy's head down while exposed. You cannot rush a gun fight. If you do, you could easily lose the fight. There is no substitute for careful aim and accuracy when trying to deliver a lethal shot.
Take cover, take your time, take aim, and win.

This makes no sense. Accuracy is always affected. I'm practicing effective firing as fast as possible while moving as fast as possible. It's most definitely not suppression fire. I know what it takes to get that hit. I'm talking about training to be faster by pushing that limit instead of always slowing down to get there.

 

[richardw]

This makes no sense. Accuracy is always affected. I'm practicing effective firing as fast as possible while moving as fast as possible. It's most definitely not suppression fire. I know what it takes to get that hit. I'm talking about training to be faster by pushing that limit instead of always slowing down to get there.

You do it your way, and I will do it mine because it kept me alive through four tours in the infantry and recon in Vietnam. What I said does make sense in spite of your opinion. I hope you never have to be in a gunfight. But, if you are, remember this if your haste does not seem to effective. Slow down when you reach cover, take aim, and kill the enemy.

Gunfighting is not like you see it in the movies. That is fantasy. The reality is that unless you keep your adrenalinin under control and your wits about you, you are likely to get hurt or dead.

Did you ever see a video of a real swat team in action? Did they rush to see how fast they could move and shoot? Fact is that ever move they make is deliberative and done slowly and carefully. That is what the experienced fighters do.

Finally, I recall an old adage in the infantry. The battle plan goes out the window as soon as the first shot is fired. That is because the enemy is not following your plan. Practice is great, but unless you are getting shot at while you practice it is not realistic.

 

[InsideWaist]

Since we are on the topic of shooting and moving, checkout Paul's video on this (skip to 06:45 to jump right into the meat of this video) ...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvnaoYfkPSo"].[/ame]

 

[forrestinmathews]

You do it your way, and I will do it mine because it kept me alive through four tours in the infantry and recon in Vietnam. What I said does make sense in spite of your opinion. I hope you never have to be in a gunfight. But, if you are, remember this if your haste does not seem to effective. Slow down when you reach cover, take aim, and kill the enemy.

Gunfighting is not like you see it in the movies. That is fantasy. The reality is that unless you keep your adrenalinin under control and your wits about you, you are likely to get hurt or dead.

Did you ever see a video of a real swat team in action? Did they rush to see how fast they could move and shoot? Fact is that ever move they make is deliberative and done slowly and carefully. That is what the experienced fighters do.

Finally, I recall an old adage in the infantry. The battle plan goes out the window as soon as the first shot is fired. That is because the enemy is not following your plan. Practice is great, but unless you are getting shot at while you practice it is not realistic.

Relax Devil Dog. What didn't make sense was you were not shooting while moving from cover to cover. That was not clearly conveyed which is why I couldn't figure how accuracy was not affected. I appreciate your advice and will follow it. Right now I have offhand effective accuracy to about 70 yards with my handgun slowly and deliberately. I'm just trying to get faster with my shooting. I'm weak there.

 

[richardw]

Relax Devil Dog. What didn't make sense was you were not shooting while moving from cover to cover. That was not clearly conveyed which is why I couldn't figure how accuracy was not affected. I appreciate your advice and will follow it. Right now I have offhand effective accuracy to about 70 yards with my handgun slowly and deliberately. I'm just trying to get faster with my shooting. I'm weak there.

My apologies. I did go a bit overboard in that post replying to yours. You make a good point about not firing while going from cover to fire. The reason we generally did not fire on the move was because we were in a unit operation so others laid down cover fire while a couple moved to cover. Then those who moved laid down cover fire for others. It is a well proven system.

Of course in a one on one gunfight you gotta manage on your own the best way you can figure out based upon the circumstances.

 

[AZretired]

LE training & qualification varies from state to state as does what they teach as Center Mass or High Center Mass. My state uses and oval shaped center mass scoring area and a credit card sized area covering the eyes/nose for the failure drill. Some stated do not require this shot others still use the old B-27 PPC target. BTW my state approves several targets for qualification and the Center Mass size and shape does vary some from target to target.

 

[richardw]

Since we are on the topic of shooting and moving, checkout Paul's video on this (skip to 06:45 to jump right into the meat of this video) ...

.

Thank you for posting the video. Harrell is a real expert. His advice is stellar in the video, as it is in all his videos. He helped make my point by demonstrating it.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Of course in a one on one gunfight you gotta manage on your own the best way you can figure out based upon the circumstances.

One on one is my most likely odd followed by one or two against many. The reason why I practice the way I do is because I believe that I have to create a shock envelope to escape from the BGs. So I figure if I can create a fearsome initial impression when outnumbered then I have a better chance of survival. If I'm moving while I do this, then I also increase my odds of survival judging by how hard it is for me to hit while moving. So I'll just try to learn how to shoot as fast as I can run as far as I can hit.

 

[richardw]

One on one is my most likely odd followed by one or two against many. The reason why I practice the way I do is because I believe that I have to create a shock envelope to escape from the BGs. So I figure if I can create a fearsome initial impression when outnumbered then I have a better chance of survival. If I'm moving while I do this, then I also increase my odds of survival judging by how hard it is for me to hit while moving. So I'll just try to learn how to shoot as fast as I can run as far as I can hit.

I can understand your rationale, but from experience I cannot agree with it. Why don't the Army and Marines train infantry to do what you suggest when they confront that envelope of multiple bad guys?

Here is why. You have actually proven the point. You know how hard it is to hit anything while running. You are counting on shock value. Well shock value only works it the rounds directed at the enemy are actually coming close and making them keep their heads down. That is why in any shoot and scoot situation the GIs count on cover fire from stationary friendlies. The scooters are not the shooters. The scooters move to cover and lay down cover fire so the shooters can become scooters.

You want to be both. problem is that when you take time to shoot while shooting you slow down. A slower moving target is much easier to hit than a faster moving target.

I really suggest that developing better sprinting speed is much better than trying to improve accuracy on the run. I train for that. I ran the 50 and 100 yd. dashes in HS. I am a sprinter. Today I at 75 I can do 50 in 8 seconds. That is a hard target to hit.

 

[WuzzFuzz]

Hmmm...I'll keep this ole thread going for a bit.

But this ole codger couldn't run 10 yards in ten minutes, so run and shoot is sort of a moot issue for me..(I can take available cover though)

Center of mass shooting...Yes...Shoot until the threat is stopped...Yes

It may or may not entail shooting all the rounds at once I have available.

The movies are great but....Having to quick drawl my weapon, I doubt it...I pretty much know my surroundings..Situational awareness, I believe it's called.

Yep, during my yearly quals for a ole has been, is we have 50 times to practice center of mass shooting...With sights shoot and point of shoot, one perp or more. A couple of the sessions were timed event, others were....Threat!!!! Shoot.

IMO, it's impossible to practice for all events. But I will say practice both, aimed and point of shoot.


WuzzFuzz

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Certainly don't want to set up a storm, but I was wondering after reading ALL of these, How many of you shot this past week...or the week before, or before that?
I picked up lots of useful info in this thread and will try them out today. My shooters will do them tomorrow. All info that we can use to see what works for us. We will be shooting. 95+ degrees and the same humidity. We will be shooting. We all want to get better. We are pretty damn good RIGHT now. But we strive to improve. So to all who read this, let's go shoot. As for me and mine we carry every step and shoot every day.
As for the OP...EVERY available target has a center mass. Shoot what you see, as fast as you can get hits.

 

[richardw]

Certainly don't want to set up a storm, but I was wondering after reading ALL of these, How many of you shot this past week...or the week before, or before that?
I picked up lots of useful info in this thread and will try them out today. My shooters will do them tomorrow. All info that we can use to see what works for us. We will be shooting. 95+ degrees and the same humidity. We will be shooting. We all want to get better. We are pretty damn good RIGHT now. But we strive to improve. So to all who read this, let's go shoot. As for me and mine we carry every step and shoot every day.
As for the OP...EVERY available target has a center mass. Shoot what you see, as fast as you can get hits.

I shoot at the range ever Wednesday afternoon. Once a month I join my friend who has a Tactical range on his farm. I would do more tactical bu there are no facilities near me where I can do that. One thing that the Corps taught me was that the more you train the more proficient you become.

 

[cavnamvet]

Take out the Dicrotic Notch and they will go down right now..
With any decent defensive round..
Heads move but not the notch..

 

[richardw]

Take out the Dicrotic Notch and they will go down right now..
With any decent defensive round..
Heads move but not the notch..

Sorry, I missing something here. A diacritic notch is a point in a graph of aortic blood pressure where the pressure drops deeply. I never heard the term used as if it were an anotomical location.

Clarification?

 

[InsideWaist]

One thing that the Corps taught me was that the more you train the more proficient you become.

Not just in the service, but it's true anywhere in life, from elementary school to adulthood; from little league baseball to retirement golf.

 

[nachogrande]

GSW'S ARE UNPREDICTABLE

While some people have "rappers luck", so many of these "musician/gangstas" have been allegedly shot multiple times & are still around. The bullet may miss vitals & a bone fragment may kill. Ever see a mangled car & wonder how anyone could have walked away??? It happens all the time. If you truly need to shoot and shoot now, You kinda have to take what's offered.

 

[cavnamvet]

Sorry, I missing something here. A diacritic notch is a point in a graph of aortic blood pressure where the pressure drops deeply. I never heard the term used as if it were an anotomical location.

Clarification?[/QUTE]

The dicrotic notch is a slang term used by some
for the u shaped notch located on top of the sternum,
Nestled between the jugular veins and carotid arteries..
A hit in this spot will result in RAPID LOSS OF BLOOD PRESSURE,
massive bleeding and central nervous/spinal cord damage..
So that is the connection.. Sorry for the confusion..

It is also the spot in which you should start a tracheotomy vertical incision..
Learned that watching medic do procedure in the field in Vietnam Nam ..

 

[Smoke]

Sorry, I missing something here. A diacritic notch is a point in a graph of aortic blood pressure where the pressure drops deeply. I never heard the term used as if it were an anotomical location.

Clarification?[/QUTE]

The dicrotic notch is a slang term used by some
for the u shaped notch located on top of the sternum,
Nestled between the jugular veins and carotid arteries..
A hit in this spot will result in RAPID LOSS OF BLOOD PRESSURE,
massive bleeding and central nervous/spinal cord damage..
So that is the connection.. Sorry for the confusion..

It is also the spot in which you should start a tracheotomy vertical incision..
Learned that watching medic do procedure in the field in Vietnam Nam ..

20 years in and around the medical field and I've never heard that term used as an anatomical reference. That's like saying shoot them in the Syncopal Episode.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Sorry, I missing something here. A diacritic notch is a point in a graph of aortic blood pressure where the pressure drops deeply. I never heard the term used as if it were an anotomical location.

Clarification?

The dicrotic notch is a slang term used by some
for the u shaped notch located on top of the sternum,
Nestled between the jugular veins and carotid arteries..
A hit in this spot will result in RAPID LOSS OF BLOOD PRESSURE,
massive bleeding and central nervous/spinal cord damage..
So that is the connection.. Sorry for the confusion..

It is also the spot in which you should start a tracheotomy vertical incision..
Learned that watching medic do procedure in the field in Vietnam Nam ..

I've always heard that referred to as the sternal notch. FYI, also a good place to jab someone with your thumb if you have to defend yourself up close.