110 GR .357

For Cal44, my bad, on one response regarding grain weight. Started typing before engaging brain. Don
 
jnichols2 said:
I say stop speculating and watch the gel test. Winchester 357 Magnum 110 gr JHP Ballistic Gel Test - YouTube

By the way, it didn't test very well, but much better than a sharp stick.
Click to expand...


From a 4" gp it fragmented and penetrated 9+ inches.

Not that good.

I wonder if it would do better from a 2" snub?

Might hold together better.

But there are lots of better choices.

I think I'll stick with 357 mag gold dots.

I like 357 mag 135 gr Speer Gold Dot short barrel in my lcr 357.

It's a nice step up from 38 sp+p, but still controlable in a snub.

I'd likely use the 125 gr 357 mag full power gold dots in my gp100, 627, or 28-2 -- but I don't carry those heavy weight guns.
 
I suspect it would work much better in a 2 1/8" Model 60. The 110 gr loads are generally intended as lighter recoiling loads for shorter barrel revolvers that also have less velocity, particularly in the .357 Magnum.

Hollow points also tend to have fairly narrow ranges where they give optimum performance - push it too fast and it will prematurely expand, and not just over expand or fragment, but also under penetrate.
 
Many years ago I tried the Winchester 110gr JHP 357 Magnum load in my 640-1 and my 19-3 (4 inch barrel). The flash was impressive, to say the least. I went back to the tried and true 125gr JHP loads.
 
It's all style, folks.
I remember when the FBI said the most effective load was 125 gr .357 Magnum and SIG invented to 357 SIG to make a similar (200 fps less) load. At one time back in the 1980s Federal LEOs issued 90 gr .38 Special rounds. Good luck sighting in your 2" Model 10 with that.
Geoff
Who notes, at last report the FBI was using 147 gr. 9mm, so you pays your money and takes your chance. Generally speaking, you shoot an evil doer and it gives up or dies right there.
 
Thread drift .... they seem to shoot well in a 4 inch Python of mine.:D

I'm not gonna' shoot ANYBODY with it though, might scratch the gun.

I've got several boxes of 110 from the "FBI rounds" days.

GF
 
My goodness there seems to be a large difference of opinion on this. Personally, I believe that all .357 Magnum HPs will be effective in a SD situation. There are various reports of LE agencies using 110, 125, 140, and 158 grain Magnums to stop a threat - it is just a powerful round. I also believe that the various weights and loads all serve different and unique purposes. Here is my take on HPs:

110 grain HP - less recoil and less velocity, but also less penetration. A good load for snub nose guns, as well as my K-frame 19.
125 grain HP - more recoil and velocity, but decent penetration. This is considered by many the best, but it a hard shooting round and does best in full size service guns. L-frames and GP100s seem made for this load.
158 grain HP - heavy recoil but less blast than 125s. This seems to be the best all-purpose round. It seems all .357s like this round, but seem best suited for 4 inch barrels and longer.
180 grain HP - I have not shot these yet. I imagine they have a good bit of recoil and ultimate penetration. I wonder how they would do for defense, I hear they work well for hunting.

Another round I must mention is the Remington 125 grain Golden Saber. This is a 125 grain JHP loaded to medium velocity. I find this round to be ideal. It has less blast and recoil than the full house 125s, and is also easy on the gun and shooter. Snubby and K-frame friendly.
 
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Yes, there is a difference of opinion. There is also something that some lose sight of.

The Winchester White Box 110 grain .357 Magnum is designed as a **TARGET** round. It is NOT designed for self defense.
 
jnichols2 said:
Yes, there is a difference of opinion. There is also something that some lose sight of.

The Winchester White Box 110 grain .357 Magnum is designed as a **TARGET** round. It is NOT designed for self defense.
Click to expand...

How many people recommend 148gr wadcutters in .38 Special for self defense, which is a target load and not designed for self defense?

I am in agreement with those who say there are better, maybe even much better, choices in SD ammo for the .357 Magnum. But what some people seem to lose sight of is that while load selection is an important part of preparing for a self defense encounter, it's not the most important part.
 
If you're using the Lucky Gunner gel results, you need to be aware that they do NOT use the same ballistic gel formula used by the FBI to determine their published standards. The LG results are ok if you're comparing between rounds, but not if you're using the FBI standards as your frame of reference.
 
ContinentalOp said:
If you're using the Lucky Gunner gel results, you need to be aware that they do NOT use the same ballistic gel formula used by the FBI to determine their published standards. The LG results are ok if you're comparing between rounds, but not if you're using the FBI standards as your frame of reference.
Click to expand...

I'll be 100% frank here...I really don't care.

To me, tests are tests. Does any gel 100% simulate the exact conditions of a person getting shot? Bone location/density, muscle mass, body size, exact clothing? Nah...it's all "close".

LG did a very good job and it paints a great picture of rounds for a given barrel length. I'm more than pleased with their findings.
 
ContinentalOp said:
If you're using the Lucky Gunner gel results, you need to be aware that they do NOT use the same ballistic gel formula used by the FBI to determine their published standards. The LG results are ok if you're comparing between rounds, but not if you're using the FBI standards as your frame of reference.
Click to expand...

Do you know how Lucky Gunner's gel differs from FBI standards? Don
 
ContinentalOp said:
How many people recommend 148gr wadcutters in .38 Special for self defense, which is a target load and not designed for self defense?

I am in agreement with those who say there are better, maybe even much better, choices in SD ammo for the .357 Magnum. But what some people seem to lose sight of is that while load selection is an important part of preparing for a self defense encounter, it's not the most important part.
Click to expand...

I was thinking something similar, but not because they are labeled "target" loads.

My reasoning was just based on the overall quality of Winchester white box ammo. In my opinion, WWB is about the cheapest range ammo you can get from them. I certainly am not going to rely on a company's economic line of target ammo for self defense purposes. To each their own on that one, but it is better than nothing I suppose.

I don't usually get super scientifically in-depth when it comes to choice of carry ammo. Normally I just pull on past info and make logical choices. That usually leads me to a slightly heavier bullet at moderate loadings for SD.

I refuse to pay commercial loading prices. Just not worth it to me, way too expensive and mostly overrated. I will continue to load my own SD ammo without concern. Have a nice load worked up for 357mag, a 140gr. XTP over 15gr. of 2400. Clocks about 1100fps out of my 2.5". Pretty confident that will cure what ails any bad guys.
 
typetwelve said:
I'll be 100% frank here...I really don't care.

To me, tests are tests. Does any gel 100% simulate the exact conditions of a person getting shot? Bone location/density, muscle mass, body size, exact clothing? Nah...it's all "close".

LG did a very good job and it paints a great picture of rounds for a given barrel length. I'm more than pleased with their findings.
Click to expand...

As I said, if all you're doing is comparing rounds to each other, it's fine. But if you're interested in knowing if a particular round will meet the FBI's 12-18" penetration standards, the Lucky Gunner results won't provide an accurate assessment since they're using a different material than the FBI used in establishing their standard.
 
DonD said:
Do you know how Lucky Gunner's gel differs from FBI standards? Don
Click to expand...

Basically, the FBI standards were made using 10% ordinance gel, which is organic. Clear ballistics gel is synthetic and more temperature stable than ordinance gel. From what I've researched, rounds will generally penetrate deeper in clear gel than ordinance gel.

As I've said, either will give you an idea of how bullets will perform, but if you're interested in knowing if a particular round meets the FBI standards, it's best to rely on results from 10% ordinance gel. If the FBI standards don't matter to you, then just use whatever source meets your needs.
 
iPac said:
My reasoning was just based on the overall quality of Winchester white box ammo. In my opinion, WWB is about the cheapest range ammo you can get from them. I certainly am not going to rely on a company's economic line of target ammo for self defense purposes. To each their own on that one, but it is better than nothing I suppose.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. While WWB would not be my first choice in SD ammo partly for that reason (and partly for the bullet weight), the 110gr SJHP .357 Magnum rounds I ran through my 3" 65 never failed. FWIW, I had other options, including Speer .357 Magnum and .38 Special SB-GDHP, as well as Buffalo Bore's .38 Special 158gr LSWCHP standard pressure load, and one of those loads was what I normally used when carrying my 65. But if those weren't available, I would be ok with carrying the 110gr SJHP.
 
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