I would be concerned with much more than 2% of people that carry based on the ones I've encountered over the years. And it's not so much the inexperienced as they tend to be extremely cautious and many times afraid of their gun, but the tactical timmys who are overconfident and think they can't possibly make a mistake. Another forum had a thread asking for those who have ever had an unintentional discharge to "fess up" and I was shocked at the how many posted they had.
It's the 2% that worry me.
- Thread starter RGVshooter
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nachogrande
Member
WHY?
WHY is kind of immaterial IMO, like wondering WHY/HOW you got the flu. The point is, you got it.
WHY is kind of immaterial IMO, like wondering WHY/HOW you got the flu. The point is, you got it.
I'm more worried about 100% of the people driving than I am about any percentage of people carrying pistols. Car accidents kill more people than guns, and they are also generally the leading cause of LEO deaths every year.
I understand the OP’s concern. I am licensed in PAwnere you can can beta carry license if you pass NICS a s PICS (settle early equiv of NICS). No training of any kind required. PA is 2A on steroids.
Do I worry about it. No, I do not. Like all states in PA you have to takeaway rest to get a driver license. Does they eliminate irresponsible and incompetent drivers? No it does not. We have as many idiots behind steering wheels as any place on earth. Passing a test does not assure responsibility.
So some might say that guns are different.well to them I ask why more people are killed in auto accidents that by guns, and recall that ⅔ of gun deaths are suicides. No gun safety training will ever prevent that.
So I just carry my gun and I drive with the hope that I will not have to deal with an irresponsible gun owner or driver. It s all the same to me.
Do I worry about it. No, I do not. Like all states in PA you have to takeaway rest to get a driver license. Does they eliminate irresponsible and incompetent drivers? No it does not. We have as many idiots behind steering wheels as any place on earth. Passing a test does not assure responsibility.
So some might say that guns are different.well to them I ask why more people are killed in auto accidents that by guns, and recall that ⅔ of gun deaths are suicides. No gun safety training will ever prevent that.
So I just carry my gun and I drive with the hope that I will not have to deal with an irresponsible gun owner or driver. It s all the same to me.
Definitely. Someone swerving over into my lane because they are looking down at their phone has become a nearly daily occurrence.
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Walkingwolf
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Money is part of it, CONTROL is most of it.
ggibson511960
Member
2%?? 98%??
My CHL course presented the crime statistics on CHL owners and it was shocking. Private CHL holders have lower incidences of crime than police or congress. Let that sink in. The incidences of crime sink to obscurity if you omit the non-violent paperwork transgressions of the CHL laws. If one were a believer in outcome based statistical behavior shaping, like some misguided souls in our government, then we would compell everyone to get a CHL license, harkening back to Archie Bunker's solution to airline hijacking, pass out the pistols at the airplane door to everyone.
Joking sophistry aside, I wonder what percentage of CHL holders rarely if ever carry a concealed weapon. We'll never know beyond rough surveys, but I believe the percentage is not insignificant. I have mine mainly to skip the background check when purchasing from a FFL. Concealed weapons are heavy and hot. I try to avoid places where a concealed weapon is likely to be needed, but that's my risk management posture. I occasionally carry, but I never chamber a round, playing the percentages that I am far more likely to shoot myself than need the weapon drawn and fired quickly to dispatch miscreants. To each his own, especially his own opinion.
My CHL course presented the crime statistics on CHL owners and it was shocking. Private CHL holders have lower incidences of crime than police or congress. Let that sink in. The incidences of crime sink to obscurity if you omit the non-violent paperwork transgressions of the CHL laws. If one were a believer in outcome based statistical behavior shaping, like some misguided souls in our government, then we would compell everyone to get a CHL license, harkening back to Archie Bunker's solution to airline hijacking, pass out the pistols at the airplane door to everyone.
Joking sophistry aside, I wonder what percentage of CHL holders rarely if ever carry a concealed weapon. We'll never know beyond rough surveys, but I believe the percentage is not insignificant. I have mine mainly to skip the background check when purchasing from a FFL. Concealed weapons are heavy and hot. I try to avoid places where a concealed weapon is likely to be needed, but that's my risk management posture. I occasionally carry, but I never chamber a round, playing the percentages that I am far more likely to shoot myself than need the weapon drawn and fired quickly to dispatch miscreants. To each his own, especially his own opinion.
Chubbo
Member
I agree, but the control would have to apply to the controller as well as to the controlled. Only when the law applies to the law makers, and law enforcers, as well as the people, being controlled, can the problem be dealt with effectively.
TomkinsSP
Member
Makes more sense than the FAAs official policy on 9/10/01
It’s true that most licensed ccw folks are better shots than LEOs and the main reason is budget. I worked for a major city and we were only required to qualify twice a year. Additionally, most cops have no interest in shooting and find it a PIA. I found that I liked it and what’s more, did not want to be embarassed at the range as I got older and needed glasses to find my way around.
Walkingwolf
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And then there is qualified immunity...
Chubbo
Member
"Why", is the absolute point. It is not immaterial. It's the complete point, of my question. The point is how, did we get it, since we didn't need it? That would be interesting to know. For me, the senseless, unneeded law, like the flu, needs to be got rid of. It just might help us, to keep all of the rights, that the, 2nd amendment to our constitution guaranties.
nachogrande
Member
"IT NEEDS TO BE GOT RID OF"
It would be nice if the flu were got rid of along with cancer, heart disease, male pattern baldness etc. How do you look in blue? DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH.
It would be nice if the flu were got rid of along with cancer, heart disease, male pattern baldness etc. How do you look in blue? DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH.
OP
RGVshooter
Member
Yeah. I think this thread ran it's natural course. It's pretty much done.
Thanks guys for all your input/thoughts guys!
Chubbo
Member
It would be nice if the flu were got rid of along with cancer, heart disease, male pattern baldness etc. How do you look in blue? DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH.
As a doctor once stated to me "Cancer could have been cured a long time ago, but the big money is made, in the treatment of cancer, not in the curing of it" I am inclined to believe he knew what he was talking about. That about sums up my opinion, of most of our fine doctors. I won't be holding my breath, while waiting for their cures, for the ailments of our society. I'm ready, to leave this worldly mess, anytime. "I HOPE THAT IT IS YET TODAY". How about you?
Couple of things to think about. One comparison was made with hunter Ed and concealed carry courses. Guess what, a hunters ed course does not make you a good hunter, just like a concealed carry course doesn’t not come close to preparing you to use a pistol defensively.
It takes years and years to hone your skills as a hunter and the same can be said for defensive tactics with a pistol.
2nd point is how most concealed carry people shoot better than LEO’s. I’d say Is also flawed. I shoot at a lot of ranges practicing and yet to see anyone who can shoot really well. The majority of the targets I see look like they used a shotgun. I’ve shot against several SWAT, police, state troopers, agents etc. generally I beat them. However, I also realize they are way, way better prepared than I could ever be for an actual encounter. Regardless of how many matches I shoot or courses I attend they will have done more preparing for that situation. Using a weapon is much more than just shooting it. Much more goes into that situation than just lining up the sights and getting an A zone hit as fast as you can. I think that saying 90% of concealed carry holders are better than police is a gross overstatement. While true in some cases, no where near that in reality.
Finally that 2% is a bit of an understatement. There are a ton of people who carry that don’t ever go beyond the I initial course or shoot defensively on a somewhat regular basis. So in my mind they too are somewhat of a libality to themselves and others around that heaven forbid they would ever have to use their gun.
Finally the original topic, talking to the guy who was doing it wrong. I’d say yes we should help them. I never hesitate to give a hand to someone who needs it in a polite way.
You have a choice. Walk away and talk about what you feel about the person even though you never offered to help, or take action and provide a bit of assistance. If they refuse or become rude, then that’s is on them. In my experience most all people are appreciative.
It takes years and years to hone your skills as a hunter and the same can be said for defensive tactics with a pistol.
2nd point is how most concealed carry people shoot better than LEO’s. I’d say Is also flawed. I shoot at a lot of ranges practicing and yet to see anyone who can shoot really well. The majority of the targets I see look like they used a shotgun. I’ve shot against several SWAT, police, state troopers, agents etc. generally I beat them. However, I also realize they are way, way better prepared than I could ever be for an actual encounter. Regardless of how many matches I shoot or courses I attend they will have done more preparing for that situation. Using a weapon is much more than just shooting it. Much more goes into that situation than just lining up the sights and getting an A zone hit as fast as you can. I think that saying 90% of concealed carry holders are better than police is a gross overstatement. While true in some cases, no where near that in reality.
Finally that 2% is a bit of an understatement. There are a ton of people who carry that don’t ever go beyond the I initial course or shoot defensively on a somewhat regular basis. So in my mind they too are somewhat of a libality to themselves and others around that heaven forbid they would ever have to use their gun.
Finally the original topic, talking to the guy who was doing it wrong. I’d say yes we should help them. I never hesitate to give a hand to someone who needs it in a polite way.
You have a choice. Walk away and talk about what you feel about the person even though you never offered to help, or take action and provide a bit of assistance. If they refuse or become rude, then that’s is on them. In my experience most all people are appreciative.
nachogrande
Member
ARE THERE ANY HUMANS YOU DO LIKE?
Thanks but I'm good. OF COURSE every person in any occupation is exactly the same, right? Bon Voyage.
Thanks but I'm good. OF COURSE every person in any occupation is exactly the same, right?
Bon Voyage.
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If someone is already a gun expert....
...it's not likely they are teachable. But the guy got his carry permit, and that worries me even more.
...it's not likely they are teachable. But the guy got his carry permit, and that worries me even more.
WHEN to pull and shoot.....
WHEN to pull and shoot is just as important as HOW.
Being a better shot OR NOT, LEOS do receive a much more extensive training than "most" CCL owners. In FL where a GUESTIMATED very large # of CCL'S are issued daily with zero training required, ( * back when I got mine anyway * ) it makes me think of safety a great deal. A hunter safety class is REQUIRED for a hunting license, but no required education/training for a CCL???IDK the exact #'s, but I think your estimate of 98% is generous. Thanks for starting a new thread. Obviously I feel safety is something that can't be stressed enough & sorry if my hijacks & soapbox antics bother you. Your example is a good one, being that many/most AD's are "probably" not malicious.
WHEN to pull and shoot is just as important as HOW.
I don't think.....
I don't think it's a bad idea to remind a fellow gun owner about some rules/laws quietly and on a personal level. It helps all of us to keep from looking dangerous and stupid in the public's eye.
Unfortunately, I believe that people's enthusiasm precludes any training or common sense.
One time I had a friend hold the ladder for me while I got something out of a tree. When it fell out of the tree he ran and got it and I hit the ground.
I don't think it's a bad idea to remind a fellow gun owner about some rules/laws quietly and on a personal level. It helps all of us to keep from looking dangerous and stupid in the public's eye.
Unfortunately, I believe that people's enthusiasm precludes any training or common sense.
One time I had a friend hold the ladder for me while I got something out of a tree. When it fell out of the tree he ran and got it and I hit the ground.
