cmort666
Member
What if you don't kill him when you stop him? Do you walk up and put one in his head as he's lying on the ground?
Not in Ohio, and a number of other places.
We don't reward people for failed felonious assaults.
Fox News Video Story: Shoot to kill vs shoot to wound?
- Thread starter Karnivore
- Start date
We don't reward people for failed felonious assaults.
Dvan34
Member
Family suits?
The only problem with the perpetrator being killed is that the family members can still sue you, after they go on the news and plead for sympathy. Either way the threat remains.
The only problem with the perpetrator being killed is that the family members can still sue you, after they go on the news and plead for sympathy. Either way the threat remains.
DavidWJ
Member
Always good to see someone shooting with skill!
We have a defensive pistol shooting facility at our range, similar to where she was having so much fun.
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Lee's Landing Billy
Member
One of America's best firearms trainers is named John Farnam. He referred to this method as "stitching". Works just like it sounds!!!
DavidWJ
Member
The first episode of Gunsmoke is on youtube. No one even attempted to wound, they just tried to kill each other. That's the difference from 1955 to now. Then they tryed to portray reality, now it's 100% fantasy.
You shoot to stop a threat. Stopped is stopped. Stopping power does not mean dead, it just means the threat is eliminated.
Ranges do all sorts of weird things so that story doesn't surprise me.
Ranges do all sorts of weird things so that story doesn't surprise me.
Aside from the obvious, there's a potential legal Catch 22 with "shoot to wound". If you use a firearm you are deploying 'deadly force' regardless of whether or not anyone dies. This means that you have assessed the situation and justified the use of deadly force. If you intentionally "shoot to wound" it could be argued that you did not justify the use of deadly force. A smart lawyer may trip you up on that and question your use of a firearm (deadly force) to only wound someone (deadly force not needed).
You shoot to eliminate the threat and you aim for center body mass...which is probably the only target that you're capable of hitting under that much stress anyway.
You shoot to eliminate the threat and you aim for center body mass...which is probably the only target that you're capable of hitting under that much stress anyway.
Live perpetrators are better. If they're alive, they can talk. And if they start talking and lying, it will be obvious.
The dead, no matter how they came to be that way, are always elevated to sainthood.
fr3db3ar
Member
They were all good boys.
Sent from somewhere in the time space continuum
Sent from somewhere in the time space continuum
If you survived the gun battle, you still have to survive the potential criminal and civil battle that may follow.
If you use deadly force, your conduct will be measured by a "reasonable person" standard. If the legal system determines that a reasonable person would have a fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm under the circumstances that existed at the time, then you were legally justified in using deadly force.
NEVER, EVER say you shot to kill. If you were forced to use justified deadly force against another, you would be well advised to speak to your attorney before you make any statement.
When you do speak, I hope: You shot because you were in fear of imminent death or great bodily harm, and that your intention was to stop the felonious, life-threatening actions of your attacker.
If you use deadly force, your conduct will be measured by a "reasonable person" standard. If the legal system determines that a reasonable person would have a fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm under the circumstances that existed at the time, then you were legally justified in using deadly force.
NEVER, EVER say you shot to kill. If you were forced to use justified deadly force against another, you would be well advised to speak to your attorney before you make any statement.
When you do speak, I hope: You shot because you were in fear of imminent death or great bodily harm, and that your intention was to stop the felonious, life-threatening actions of your attacker.
Dvan34
Member
I'm sure the courts and defense attorneys would love this type of event, along with the civil attorneys in a lawsuit.
OLDSTER
Member
Shoot
REALLY?
High stress, panic, adrenaline rush ---shoot to HIT !
REALLY?
High stress, panic, adrenaline rush ---shoot to HIT !otasan56
US Veteran
Bounce-back bullets happen occasionally at bowling pin matches. I have been shooting pins since 1978, and I have never been hit by a bounce-back bullet.
ExRanger714
Member
I recognize this is an old thread. . .
With regard to the hole-shot postulate and discussion. . .
Seems to me like training to shoot from that far behind a barricade opening reminds me of shooting from back in the room rather than sticking the barrel out the window and marking your position, and so on per FM 23-10.
It also drastically reduces one's field of view. That's what a spotter or security squad is for due to the danger inherent in the required tunnel vision focus necessary on the part of the shooter.
Civilian shooters might consider being asked "If you shot through that little hole how can you maintain that you were aware of your surroundings?" "Did you even see your unintended victim as he walked into the path of your bullet?"
With regard to the hole-shot postulate and discussion. . .
Seems to me like training to shoot from that far behind a barricade opening reminds me of shooting from back in the room rather than sticking the barrel out the window and marking your position, and so on per FM 23-10.
It also drastically reduces one's field of view. That's what a spotter or security squad is for due to the danger inherent in the required tunnel vision focus necessary on the part of the shooter.
Civilian shooters might consider being asked "If you shot through that little hole how can you maintain that you were aware of your surroundings?" "Did you even see your unintended victim as he walked into the path of your bullet?"
I'm glad you brought it back, as I missed it the 1st time around. As for a ricochet, I was struck in the upper are by a .45 that bounces off of my plywood backstop at 15 yards. After nearly 30 of having this range in my yard, and thousands of rounds fired, I was astonished when it happened. I looked down and found the bullet at my feet! No skin broken but it sure did sting when it hit. Believe it, bullets will bounce back off of plywood.
nachogrande
Member
FAKE NEWS
Reported by people that have little to no knowledge or experience with what they are reporting on. DON'T LOOK LIKE ANY "PUBLIC" RANGE I'VE EVER SEEN. Some type of comp course. In a real deal, I'm gonna shoot ANY & EVERY part I can until my life is no longer in danger (hopefully).
Standing still, shooting thru a glory hole at a stationary target??? The logic doesn't jump out at me. 
Reported by people that have little to no knowledge or experience with what they are reporting on. DON'T LOOK LIKE ANY "PUBLIC" RANGE I'VE EVER SEEN. Some type of comp course. In a real deal, I'm gonna shoot ANY & EVERY part I can until my life is no longer in danger (hopefully).
Standing still, shooting thru a glory hole at a stationary target??? The logic doesn't jump out at me.
ExRanger714
Member
Saw that
Saw a guy shoot himself in the middle finger of his shooting hand when a handload wadcutter 38 entered and then rebounded out of a locust 4x4 post at 30 feet or so. Dimple in his finger and slug at his feet. Caliber or so deep wadcutter impression in post.
Saw a guy shoot himself in the middle finger of his shooting hand when a handload wadcutter 38 entered and then rebounded out of a locust 4x4 post at 30 feet or so. Dimple in his finger and slug at his feet. Caliber or so deep wadcutter impression in post.
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OMG! I want to puke. In post 19 the so called expert said that lethality was dependent upon The amount of energy hitting the target and that two rounds with 400 or so foot pounds on center mass would do it. The man's head has to be where the sun does not shine. Now I did drink a double scotch on the rocks before I watched the video, so maybe I misunderstood but, I don't think so. The guy is dispensing worthless training and advice.
He also entertained the question of shhotmto kill,or wound. Any knowledgeable instructor would have simply said that you shoot to stop the attack whether you kill, wound or simply scare the assailant off. and people,pay him to be able,to,shoot through a hole in a board. Yikes!!
He also entertained the question of shhotmto kill,or wound. Any knowledgeable instructor would have simply said that you shoot to stop the attack whether you kill, wound or simply scare the assailant off. and people,pay him to be able,to,shoot through a hole in a board. Yikes!!
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Rastoff
US Veteran
OK, maybe I'm missing your point. If it's not transfer of energy that stops the threat, what is it?
It is accuracy. No matter how much energy is delivered at the point of target contact it is not going to be lethal in itself. A 22, 25, 32, 38 or 380 can be lethal when it hits the target in the right place. Shooting 9mm and larger is going to deliver a lot more energy than the smaller calibers, but it has to hit s lethal area to be lethal. In my mind energy is #2.
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